Losing a baby at 20-24 weeks of pregnancy
Deciding whether to see and hold the baby
Giving birth so early meant that the baby had either already died or only lived for a few minutes or hours after being born. Whether to see or hold their baby was a difficult decision and many parents were unsure about what they would want to do. They didn’t know what to expect, or what their baby would look like, and worried they wouldn’t be able to cope.
Coping with seeing the baby
In general, parents were pleased they had seen their baby. Many we spoke to were reassured by how their baby looked. Several described their babies as 'perfect' and ‘beautiful’. They were intensely moved by what they saw, often noticing family resemblances. Some noticed their baby’s skin was redder than they expected.
Alison explained how her baby “really looked so perfect” although she knew he had a severe problem with his kidneys.
Alison explained how her baby “really looked so perfect” although she knew he had a severe problem with his kidneys.
Mike and Emily were anxious about how their baby might look, but she was like a very tiny baby.
Mike and Emily were anxious about how their baby might look, but she was like a very tiny baby.
Emily: Perfectly formed, yeah.
Mike: Like I mean, it wasn't like a - like a fetus, you know, they're slightly still developing. Like she, she was ready. All she was going to do from there was get bigger.
Emily: Mmm.
Mike: She was perfectly formed. So, to –
Emily: I think we were even shocked at that. Because I –
Mike: Yeah.
Emily: -that was one of the things I was really anxious about, it's like, what is she going to look like? Is it going to be disgusting?
Mike: Fingernails, and little things like that, as well. Just these tiny details that - to me, that's - that wasn't a miscarriage. In no way, shape or form. Medically it was. But I don't, I don't think it was.
Emily: Because I - yeah, we were worried of what she'd look - I didn't know if she'd still look sort of like blobby, or - you know, be squid-, I don’t know. I just didn't know what to expect at all. So, I, we were both surprised, weren't we?
Mike: Yeah.
Emily: And when we've shown people photos, they're like "Oh, my goodness - she is a, like just a tiny little baby." So, yeah. I think that terminology - I don't know how you’d, on earth you'd go around changing it. But I do feel like it doesn't do justice to what we went through. Maxine found it helpful having time before birth to use the internet to look at pictures of what their baby might look like.
Maxine found it helpful having time before birth to use the internet to look at pictures of what their baby might look like.
Steve: Yeah. Well we'd gone through that - we'd gone through that as well, hadn't we? When I think - you know - When you rewind the clock back, when we were told on the Tuesday when it was blatantly - you know, you're not going to survive. We obviously had this, we had to then think 'well, when Maxine gives birth - you know - birth to Heidi, do we want to see her?
Maxine: Do we want to hold her?
Steve: Do we want to hold her? Or do we just, you know?
Maxine: Do we just give her away?
Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
Maxine: And I think you know, that was - We'd, I'd said - I think we had very mixed views on that.
Steve: Yeah. I think originally –
Maxine: We had very different views, maybe not mixed.
Steve: I think originally we sort of said no.
Maxine: We both said no.
Steve: No, you know, we couldn't handle it. And things like that. And –
Maxine: I think, I think it's that detachment.
Steve: Yeah.
Maxine: If you don't see it, it's not - it's not happened.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
Maxine: That's very, that’s very naive –
Steve: And I think that, yeah. Because I think suddenly you think oh, you know - what's the baby going to look like when it comes out? And everything like that. And you just think right, you know, take it away, and you don't see it. So, you know.
Maxine: And then I think the more, the more I looked into it, and I looked at pictures, and - I don't know what I was expecting –
Steve: Yeah.
Maxine: Because obviously all you’ve got to - All you've got to go on is, a baby like when we had our first child.
Steve: Yeah.
Maxine: Which is a normal baby. Or, what you've seen on a scan. And a scan doesn't look anything –
Steve: No.
Maxine: You know, it doesn't look anything like it. And I think I gradually - You know, when I'd had the time over Christmas, I'd looked. And I'd said to you - I told you I'd looked –
Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
Maxine: You know, I just Googled - you know - eighteen week old babies.
Steve: Yeah.
Maxine: And I'd looked, and I'd kind of thought, 'I can probably - I can do it, and I want to do it'. And I'd said it to you, hadn't I?
Steve: Yeah.
Maxine: And I'd said, "We don't have to have the same decision. You can go out of the room, and I will gladly -."
Steve: Yeah.
Maxine: I said, "But I think I want to do it." And I think it's - I think looking at stuff and reading stuff as well, you - you read people who didn't have the chance to hold their baby. And it's - You can't go back on your decision, once –
Steve: Yeah. I mean, it - that's the thing, isn't it.
Maxine: Once she's gone, she's gone.
Steve: Yeah.
Maxine: And you can't, you know, a week later say "I want to go back and hold her." There's no, there's no choice. And I think equally, it's nice - I think the time we had made us - If we'd have been forced to do it on the Tuesday, and terminate the pregnancy straight away before Christmas, then we'd have probably both still said "No, we don't want to hold her."
Steve: Yeah.
Maxine: And I think you know, now –
Steve: Yeah, time sort of changed, didn't it?Courtney explained how at first she didn’t want to see her baby but she was glad she changed her mind.
Courtney explained how at first she didn’t want to see her baby but she was glad she changed her mind.
And, and so I had my head turned the whole time I was giving birth. And, and my husband saw him as he came out. And then - But then I'd, I was having this fit. So then I just said "I don't want to see him, I don't want to see him. Take him away."
And then I woke up, and - and he said - and I still was adamant that I wasn't going to see him, the boy. Because we - Obviously it was - it was a son that we were going to have. And, and my husband was like, "Oh, you really should see him. I feel better for seeing him." So they brought him in. And I literally - it is really difficult to remember. Because it was such a blur. Like I was still quite out of it. And, but I remember thinking - couldn't believe how formed he was. I couldn't believe how much he looked like my husband. I was just like shocked. That was pretty tough. Because it was like [in tears]. But I'm really pleased that I did see him.Nesta found that the layout of the bereavement suite allowed her time to prepare herself to see and hold her baby.
Nesta found that the layout of the bereavement suite allowed her time to prepare herself to see and hold her baby.
You know, there was - We were much more comfortable. And they had - They had the sort of birthing room and the bathroom, and then they had a sitting area. You know, where you could make tea and coffees and things. And then there was also another little room, where you could put the baby afterwards. Which was amazing to have.
And you stayed in there for the rest of the time?
And that's where I gave birth in the end, yeah.
Yeah. And it was special because it was just a bit more cosy, and you had that room?
It was special [sigh]. Yes, it was much more comforting, but that extra room was so useful. Because you can take your time to work up to see the baby. Because you don't know what to expect. I kept asking what to expect, and they said, "Well, it's a baby." [Laugh]. But Daniel, he was born completely in his sac, as can happen quite a lot - can happen anyway, can't it. But, so I couldn't see anything. And it was - He actually came out when I was in the toilet [laugh]. So I was in labour for a while. And the one thing I remember that you don't have with a live birth is they can give you morphine, they can give you any drugs you want. So it does make you more out of it [laugh].
And I went to the loo, and he actually came out then. And then they took him away to clean him up. And they put him in a little Moses basket in this room. And you can prepare yourself to go and see him. So I went to see him immediately.Vikki spent time with her baby on her own as her partner didn’t feel he wanted to see her.
Vikki spent time with her baby on her own as her partner didn’t feel he wanted to see her.
Yeah, they brought her through in a tiny little basket. She was very small. They covered up her head. I remember they covered her head up. Her face was showing. But because her head - the skull bones aren't correctly formed at that stage of pregnancy. Because they only become more rounded I think a lot later on. So they didn't want to distress me, so they put a hat on her, and put a little blanket over her. And the midwife stayed with me, by my side. And asked if I wanted a little bit of time alone. And I said "Yeah, I would."
Sam described how a midwife took photos of her baby to help her decide whether she wanted to see and hold him.
Sam described how a midwife took photos of her baby to help her decide whether she wanted to see and hold him.
We wanted to see photos. Because it - We didn't know what to expect. And it's easier to forget a photo than it is something you've actually lived. So we said, "We don't, we don't want to - we don't want to see him. But we would really like to see some photos." And so [nurse], bless her, she - Even though she'd finished work, she - We - She took some photos. And then they couldn't find a printer, and they were running round. You know, I think 45 minutes to an hour later, she came back with these photos, and she was like, you know, "Here you go." And showed us the photos. And she was like "He's, he's beautiful." And so we looked at the photos, and then were like, "Yeah. We would like to see him." And so they brought him in a little - in a little basket, with a blanket over him. And [laugh] my - My partner at the time had a beanie hat on, that him and [nurse] had joked about. And she'd managed to find a little blue hat for him, that she'd put on for him. So when he came in, he was in his basket, and had his little hat on, and. And she said, like "If you want to see him, just ask." You know. Because we didn't want to keep him in the room with us, we wanted him to be kept - to be kept safe, and everything. And so I think - I think we saw, saw him five or six times throughout the next few days.
But yeah, he - My, my Mum and my partner's Mum also saw him on their own, in a side room. Before we'd seen him. Because we were adamant we didn't want to see him yet.
And we said "Yes, fine - if they, if they want to see him." So, they - they saw him in another room. And it was, yeah. I don't - I think for me, the hardest part was not knowing what to expect. And I don't think - I don't think you can even tell someone what to expect. Because even if someone had told me what to expect, I wouldn't have believed them.
In terms of seeing him?
Seeing him. The whole experience. You can't -
Mmm. The birth as well?
Yeah. I don't think you can describe that to someone accurately enough for it to be, to turn out exactly how you've said. I think that's - That's a big part of it. Yeah. And even - Even friends I know that have had more than one loss have said, you know, that it's not the same between one and the other. They're always very different experiences.Nesta’s husband was unsure about seeing and holding their baby. He was worried because he looked so delicate and found holding him in a Moses basket really helped.
Nesta’s husband was unsure about seeing and holding their baby. He was worried because he looked so delicate and found holding him in a Moses basket really helped.
But he felt that it was important to go and see?
He did.
Yeah. And how did he find it?
He was - he was terribly upset. Very upset. We took - We took photos. And we sat in the sort of living area. Like I held - I'd held the baby directly, but I remember [my husband] didn't want to. But he did hold him in his basket. And he said it was mainly because he looked so delicate, he thought he'd damage him [laugh], or. He was tiny.
Mmm. So you picked him up and held him?
Yeah. For a long time. There was - It was really good, there was no - you know - pressure from anyone.Camille found holding her baby “heart-breaking”.
Camille found holding her baby “heart-breaking”.
And I wasn't asleep. I was just not quite there. And I think that really helped me process what happened. Which was helpful. Then when I started feeling better, I think the survival instinct kicked in, and I thought 'I need to eat something before I see her, because I don't know how I'm going to feel after, and I need to look after myself'. So we had something to eat first. The midwife had asked me already a couple of times whether I wanted to see her, but I kept on saying, "Not yet." And then once I felt better, once we had eaten something, then I asked the midwife to - if I could see her.
They were going to do everything in front of us. Which I wanted at the time. So they were going to weigh her, do the hands and foot prints, and all of that. But I asked to hold her in my arms first. And it's probably going to sound awful, but when they put her in my arms, the first thing that came into my head was 'this is not my baby' [in tears]. And that wasn't because I didn't love her, because of course I did. But she looked very distressed, her mouth was wide open, as if she'd been gasping for air. She was quite bruised from the birth. And just that look on her face was really heartbreaking. And I think my brain just wanted to protect me, and make me remember her from the scans, and the time that she was alive and happy and comfortable, rather than that particular image at that particular moment.
Was actually a bit too much. So I only held her for a couple of minutes. I remember my husband staying with me for the whole thing after that, he couldn't leave me. He was actually really surprised when they put her in my arms, and he said, "She's a real baby. She's even got hair." And it really dawned on me that. As silly as it sounds, we weren't prepared for that. As much as I knew from my training, the stage of pregnancy I was at, that it wasn’t going to be a bit of blood and tissue, and a little sac with foetus. I don't think either of us were expecting to have a baby. Because we had been told the word 'miscarriage' so many times. Yeah. It wasn't - it really didn't register in our mind that we were having a baby. And that really - that moment really made me realise that when my husband said that, because I thought 'yes, we're having a baby, and they should have prepared us for that, they really should have'. And instead of using that horrible word 'miscarriage', they should have said you're about to have a baby. And that probably would have helped a little bit. Her - Then I gave her back to the midwives, and I asked them to do everything outside of the room, because I couldn't bear it. That's the only time that I saw her. I can't really remember much after that.Collette remembered wanting to undress her baby and see his body.
Collette remembered wanting to undress her baby and see his body.
Lindsay was pleased her midwife discussed how she wanted to see and hold her baby.
Lindsay was pleased her midwife discussed how she wanted to see and hold her baby.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he was born, and I think he kind of flopped out onto the bed, really. Because obviously he was limp. And as, as he was being born, I remember them saying "Do you want to do skin to skin?" And I was kind of still thinking there's hope, you know, like maybe if I do skin to skin - you hear these miraculous stories of these babies that come back to life. So I was like "Yeah, yeah." And then, so they were trying to get the robe off me, because obviously it was all tied up, and they were all trying to do this. And then when he came out, I said to [my husband], "Is he alive?" And he said "No." And then I said "Well I don't want to do skin to skin, then." But they did just wrap him up in a towel, and I guess they must have like cleaned his face or something. And then yeah, they handed him to me. Swaddled like that.Michelle and Iain were anxious about how their baby would look but seeing him was a “life-changing moment”.
Michelle and Iain were anxious about how their baby would look but seeing him was a “life-changing moment”.
Probably changed my perspective on a lot of things. You know? Seeing this incredible creation, you know, lying there, that hadn't fully formed but was still - you know - to me, a full human being. How are you supposed to know how you're going to feel about that before it's even –
Michelle: Right.
Iain: You know, I though [laugh] - you know - so we're doing our best.
Michelle: Yeah.
Iain: Having conversations as much as we could. Trying to work out what, what we were going to do. So, and - But with no - Again, with no one else there sort of talking us through it or anything, it was just here's some information, and she had to carry on with her job, probably [laugh], go and be somewhere else.Loretta’s experience over 25 years ago was very different to more recent parents’ experiences.
Loretta’s experience over 25 years ago was very different to more recent parents’ experiences.
Didn't get to see the baby again, no. I mean, only sort of when he first came out, I had a look at him then. But one of the nurses there, she actually took a photo of him, and put like - she had a Polaroid camera, took a photo and put a little carnation next to him. And it just showed you really the size of him, he was quite tiny still.
Which I thought that was quite nice. But yeah, no - we never saw him.
Okay. Did you ask? Did you ask to see him, or want to see him, or?
[Sigh] At the time, didn't even think of something like that. You know, it's only as time goes on, you think 'oh, we should have done this, we should have done that'. And they did give us the option to have like a memorial service for him. But we didn't go down that route. Which again now I'm thinking maybe I should have done something like that. But you know, at least I've got the photo, so. But we did name him, we called him Adam.
Parents made different choices about holding and touching their baby. Some felt scared they would hurt the baby because they were so small. Often parents held their babies for hours - cuddling and talking to them sometimes through the night. The baby was often kept in a cool cot to allow parents to spend more time with them and Sarah felt it would have helped to know about how cold her baby would feel. Some mothers, looking back, wished they had been guided and encouraged by their midwife to pick up and hold their baby.
For David Z, spending time with his son and holding him was incredibly important.
For David Z, spending time with his son and holding him was incredibly important.
Because I knew that he was going to die, so I just - just making the, spending the more time I can. I mean, any - any second I could. He was with us, I mean, and actually we - He was born at 9:46, and he died after - after midnight. But still, it was a - it was a dead body, no? We stayed with him all night. It's alright, I mean. Maybe if, if, don't know, few months back somebody was telling me "Oh yeah, would you spend like a night - a night with a dead body," you would say "What are you talking about?" But no, you do. You do.
I mean, it's your boy. You love him anyway. Doesn't matter if he's dead, or not. You love him. Yeah. And I - But I was really sure I wanted to hold him, I wanted to feel him. Because I - I can remember him. I can. There's this - That whole experience is, is just - it's here. I mean, it will never go away. I mean, I can remember every second of everything that happened. Maybe because now is - it's quite recent. Maybe it was four months, five months ago. But still, I remember everything. Everything. I will, I'm not sure I will, I will ever forget. But, but yeah. The delivery was, was good. Good I hope, yeah. It was fine. Was fine. Yeah. But definitely, yeah - holding him, it helped. Carly described how her and her husband met their baby but wished she had invited other family members to be there too.
Carly described how her and her husband met their baby but wished she had invited other family members to be there too.
You were saying you were worried about seeing her, after she was born?
Yeah.
How did it feel when you held her and saw her?
She wasn't deteriorated. I don't think she had passed away that long before we found out. Like she was just - she just looked like a little premature girl, you know? She wasn't. There was nothing wrong with her. You know? Like, and. I’m pleased I held her. And I'm pleased that I got to see her. I would have regretted it if I'd chosen to say 'no, I'm not going to see her', I would have left the hospital and I would have regretted that decision my whole life. So although it was hard to hold her, you know, she'd passed away so holding your dead baby is never easy. I'm still - it was the right decision, for me. And I'm glad that my husband got to meet her, too. Because I felt like I had this connection with her, you know, from the second she was conceived.
I think men bond better when the baby's born. Because they're not as involved in the pregnancy - you know - other than coming to the scans, and they're excited, but you know. For me, like we were one person. You know? So I'm glad that he got that little connection with her, and he got to hold his daughter.
You know, even if it was just for a short time. And I think he's glad too. He's happy he held her.
I wish now that I'd invited family to come and meet her. But at the time, it didn't seem right. It was so private. You know? The only people that saw Josephine were me and [my husband], the midwife, and the hospital chaplain came and blessed her. And, and nobody else. So I think probably - You know, in hindsight maybe I could have had some close family to come and that could have met her before, but. You know, I can't change that now, that's - that's happened, and we just have to be happy that we’ve seen her.
But she was just, she was just a little baby, you know? She was just tiny. And just - her, her face was like a little bit like more - the skin was a bit more red than like a full term baby. And, obviously her features were smaller. I got her hands and foot prints, and they're just - you know - she's just little, little tiny handprints, you know? Sarah talked about preparing herself to see and hold her baby and not expecting him to feel cold.
Sarah talked about preparing herself to see and hold her baby and not expecting him to feel cold.
And she said "I think," she went "No, I think - you know, he's absolutely fine. You should, you know, you could see him." So then my husband and I - he - I asked him to go first. So he went first. And then they brought him out in - They put him in one of the cold cots. Which is something that's very odd as well, because you never think about picking up a cold baby. Really cold baby. That's something that's very strange. Because obviously every other baby I've had or held has always been a warm baby.
And that's a very - That's something we didn't, I didn't think about beforehand. Literally like taking something out of a fridge. It was that cold. And then we were allowed to spend as much time with him as possible. And I really appreciated the fact that actually everyone there - everyone at the hospital treated us like we had had a stillborn baby. And that was something that I think made a massive - I found afterwards, there's a massive difference between my experience and a lot of other people, other people I've spoken to when I've been to - We went to a bereavement, a bereavement group.
And I knew a lot of other people who'd had babies similar time as us, similar week. But had been treated - you know - not badly, but they felt that they had been treated as if they'd had a miscarriage. Whereas actually I felt - We very much felt like they had treated us as if we'd had a stillborn baby. Even though that wasn't the medical, you know, time. Then - But the midwives, well they provided everything for us that they would for a stillborn baby. So because he couldn't get a birth certificate because, you know, ten days short of his twenty four weeks.
But they actually made a small - they have a small birth certificate, which they gave to us. And the midwife did his handprints and footprints for us. Which was lovely. And we were allowed to spend as much time in the room as we wanted. And we did actually have a few family members - grandparents - who actually came, came up and saw him. And they were allowed to come and go as, as and when they wanted. And, yeah. We got to spend as much time. And the doctor came in, and we had to sign forms to do with post-mortem.
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