Jackie

Age at interview: 40

Brief Outline: Jackie sees herself as a strong person and she stresses the importance of self-reliance in finding a way to cope with her teenage daughter’s self-harming.

Background: Jackie, aged 40, is married with two children. She is a care worker. Ethnic background: White/Scottish.

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Jackie discovered her daughter’s self-harming by accident when she noticed marks on her arm one evening. Her daughter refused to talk about it at first. They were both very shocked, Jackie to discover it and her daughter to have been found out. Jackie talks about her daughter always ‘pushing’ to grow up and be independent and being extremely frustrated by life, sometimes to the point of hitting herself when she was as young as three. Jackie decided not to tell her husband about the self-harming because she felt he wouldn’t be able to cope with it. He found out by accident, when he noticed marks on his daughter’s arms when they were on holiday.

Jackie describes the impact on the whole family as destructive. In addition to self-cutting, her daughter was drinking, taking drugs and was sexually active, all under the age of 16. All this behaviour led to many arguments and rows. 

Jackie decided not to consult a GP about her daughter’s self-harming, partly because she expected to be put on a long waiting list for counselling. She looked on the internet for private counselling services but her daughter decided she wasn’t ready for it. Ultimately, encouraged by a schoolteacher, Jackie’s daughter asked her to arrange some counselling sessions, which she attended and found beneficial.

Jackie has told very few people about her daughter’s self-harming. She has told some friends, one of whom also has a daughter who self-harms. She gets support from chatting with her friends, not just about self-harm. Jackie describes herself as a strong and self-reliant person. She helps herself to cope by running with her dogs, through meditation and natural healing remedies. She and her husband also try to provide a warm family environment in which they spend ‘quality time’ with their children.

Jackie found some useful information on the internet, particularly from one American website. But, in general, she feels there isn’t enough information available and, in particular, there is not enough information and help available locally. She thinks it would be helpful if there could be informal spaces where people who self-harm, and parents, could go to talk about their experiences and their problems.

Jackie says that her daughter has ‘turned things round’ and hasn’t self-harmed for some time. She helps herself by writing. But Jackie is fearful of her being away from home at University and possibly returning to self-harm if she experiences adverse life events. Her messages to other parents are to ‘always be on your guard’ and to rely on your own resources as well as looking for outside help.

Jackie accepts that her daughter needs to talk on her own terms when she’s ready.

So I am always, she’s a very very sensitive kid and talk, you know, I try and talk to her. We are, we are very close but it always has to be on her terms and when she’s ready. And I now accept that. I didn’t before. When she first started doing it, I was, “Oh, oh, oh ” I was an anxious wreck, I was an absolute wreck She’d come in from school, I’d pounce on her. She’d want to just go up to her room and have space, but I didn’t, that, that conflict, “I need to see you’re okay. What, what happened? What kind of a day have you had?” Really talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. 
Now I know that we’ve got to talk, but not in an, for me it’s not in a formal way. We go to the pictures more often now, have something to eat, that’s when I find she’ll talk to me a lot more. Or I can pick her up from her boyfriend or a friend’s house and, you know, she’s had a nice time, she’s relaxed, she’s been with friends, she will talk more then. Just about, not about, not about the self-harming, we’ve not talked about that for a long time actually. Not that it’s a big secret any more, it’s not, it’s out. I do feel that we can talk about that. But about life in general, you know. 

Jackie could see both positive and negative aspects of the internet.

And you mentioned websites that might encourage self-harm. Can you say a bit about that?

The, I, yes, I did come across some. To be honest, my head was that messed up at the time I couldn’t even look at a lot of the sites that were there. Certainly sites that as an adult you would think, “[mhm] It’s not really encouraging yeh, but I can see why children would think that it was” you know. So I remember looking at sites that were like, “[mhm] That’s wrong. I’ve got mixed, mixed messages.” In a teenager’s eyes it’s almost like encouragement, definitely. The ones, there’s ones that say, “Look, if you’re going to do this, make sure everything’s clean, things are sterile.” I totally agree with that, absolutely. But there was other stuff there that was almost like people were showing their wounds with a sense of pride. And that’s wrong. Those sites are not helpful at all. It was, there definitely needs to be some bar on that. It was almost like they were proud to display what they had.  

And even that in itself, some of the pictures, you know, girls, you know, showing their wounds, and just their posture, the way they were standing, they didn’t even need to show their faces. For me, if you’re going to show wounds, don’t show their faces, because the, expressions to me almost looked like they were wearing it with a sense of pride. It was almost like, like an attention thing. People see you chopping yourself self, they go, “She just wants attention.” There’s a lot of that as well, I would say. I mean even my daughter’s father thought that initially. I thought it at points, “Is this just for attention? Did we not give her attention?” 

So, yes, websites, yes, they need to be filtered through, they need to be policed, definitely, because some of them can be seen as encouraging it as a good way to express yourself. Because it’s when you get the initial cut, the adrenalin kicks in and that’s when you get that satisfaction that, “The pain’s away now, I feel better,” not for very long, wrong, you know. There needs to be a lot more policing on that. A lot of negativity, yes, it’s very mixed. 

It’s quite confusing actually and as a parent, to read a lot of that, your head’s already messed up, yes. I mean my daughter never looked at any of it. I tried to, I showed her printouts of what I thought were helpful things. What you learn is, if you’re looking on a web site what you want is, this is helpful, dos and don’ts, yes. Give them space. Don’t get on their back all the time. Don’t nag at them all the time, you know. Try, don’t shout at them, you know. Try and listen to them. Give them space. Don’t butt in. Let them say what they need to say, even if you’re itching to get your bit in, you know. L- 

Think leave the bedroom door open, you know, ajar a bit, you know. Just police it, but try not to make it too obvious. Think tips, tips, tips, dos and don’ts. That’s helpful, that’s helpful. Seeing girls with smiles on their faces showing wounds and stuff and, you know, almost encouraging words, I couldn’t look at that, it just made me feel sick. It was making a mockery of a very serious issue that destroys families, it destroys them, totally destroys them. We’re all together as a unit again. Two years ago we were destroyed, we were destroyed. Those sites do not help people.

Jackie was horrified to find her daughter had self-harmed.

And then I was just I think shock, horror, absolute horror. I was completely horrified and shocked. It took my breath away, completely took my breath away. I knew things, I knew things weren’t so good, just because she was being a typical, what we’d call a typical teenager, you know, staying out late, coming home, you know, hours, you know, later, you know, not answering her phone. We’d go to pick her up, you know, that was the deal, “You go here, we’ll pick you up”. She wouldn’t be there. You know, coming home absolutely trolleyed, drinking, just the usual shenanigans. So that I suppose, you know, you would, she’d come home drunk and then you’d go, “All right, I’m over that shock. Right, it’s on to the next thing. What’s, w-, what’s in line next?” you know.

And that I think topped them all really. A-, a-, a-, absolutely horrified. And then she was horrified, she was horrified that, with herself as well I suppose. She was embarrassed, you know, when I said to her, “Look, what is this?” because she saw my reaction. Which was just, I was stunned, I think for once I was actually speechless. And then I, I said, you know, “What, what’s going on here?

Jackie found some information and a helpful website but couldn’t find anyone she could talk to.

Could you talk a bit more about looking for information about self-harm?

Well, I suppose the Internet was the tool that I accessed. There’s no leaflets about it at all. I found myself in local libraries, just looking. I mean even working with women in homeless units, there was nothing there, you know. When I thought back about my time doing that I thought, “No, no.” There was lots of help for drugs, there was lots of help for alcoholics, there were support networks for domestic abuse, but there was nothing for harmers. 

So even back, even then, a few years ago I done that and the libraries, no, there was nothing there. So I thought, “Right, okay.” And wherever I went I found myself with another eye open looking around to see if there was leaflets, information, posters, anything, in the doctor’s surgery, anything, “Is there anything here that’ll…?” 

And, and if it was more widely advertised there wouldn’t be as much head banging for parents. Well, I mean not always parents, it’s not just parents that are dealing with it. For harmers themselves that want this help, “Yes, I’ve been doing it, I’ve been harming now, I want help now” they’re not going to find it on their laps. So that’s why right, okay, Internet access, I just typed in harming, harming. In fact, you know, nothing even came up for that specifically. It was counsellors. What I wanted was even, not even a counsellor, because sometimes your child’s not ready for that, someone to go and talk to, “What does this mean?” There was, there was actually no one for that, there was actually no one. No one you could go to sit and for them to say, “It’s about control. Harm-, this is what it’s about.” They’re not trying to kill theirselves. It’s not a suicide attempt. Sometimes they go a bit deeper than they meant to. It’s dee-, goes deeper than that, it’s a psychological thing. 

There’s no one to explain that, you know, it, what it’s about, it, it’s a, a control thing. They have this control. It’s like anorexia and drugs, it’s, it’s a control thing. But, but there’s no one there to explain it to you. It’s a really complex subject. I mean I’ve read up on it and I’m still like, “God, this is really complex.” You need, for, for you to help your child you need to understand what it means to be a harmer, so you can help them. That’s not around, full stop, full stop. I ended up going to counsellors. 

I Googled it, yeh, information, what does it mean? I’ve got that, but there was no one to go and speak to. And there was a couple of sites but it was people abroad, Americans. So that doesn’t help. I’m in Scotland. There’s nothing in Scotland, not, and I never found anything personally. So, no, it sucks, there’s nothing, nothing at all.

Those tips now you know that stuff now. How have you learned that?

The American one. There was one website that I looked at that, in fact she still has it in her room, she still has it. There was, one website that I, that I thought, “That’s helpful.” And from my own experience as well, I now know dos and don’ts. But this particular website, it was an American guy and I think it was a clinic that he had over there. He was good, he was good. He gave, he also gave fantastic tips, which were, if you start noticing the signs, look out for the signs before. Almost like an epileptic, you’re, you’re looking for the aura before you do the damage. You’re like, like, “Do you know what? I’m about to have a seizure in a minute. I can feel that aura coming on. So have a wee sleep.” It’s recognising yourself. So he gave good tips on that. That was extremely helpful. What to do when you feel that, “Oh, I’m feeling angry, you know, oh, I can feel it coming on. I feel like I want to cut myself. Right, I recognise that, so what do I do now?” So he had said that. 

So I used bits of his site, but very, very few. He’s the only one that springs to mind that, that, that I used. A lot of it, no. But, so I followed this guy’s information, but he’s the other side of the world. I couldn’t go and see this guy or even phone him. Well, I probably could have, but I’m thinking, “Well, money as well of course comes into it.” Why should it always have, have to cost so much? 

Jackie’s husband didn’t understand self-harm and dealt with it by pretending it wasn’t happening.

A lot of the women who’ve spoken to me have talked about the men in their lives, their husbands, former husbands, fathers of their children, brothers of their children, sometimes reacting differently to self-harm from the way they react?

Yes.

Can you say a bit about that?

Definitely. Well, that’s why I couldn’t tell my husband, I felt I couldn’t tell him at first. I knew there’s a certain pride that comes with men, well, okay, I’ll say my husband, everyone’s different of course. I knew I couldn’t tell my husband at first.  If we hadn’t, if he hadn’t discovered it on holiday, the lie would have continued because I wasn’t in a good place myself. I knew he couldn’t cope with it because he couldn’t understand it. I knew that he’d maybe make the situation worse by saying, “Is this just for attention?” And he did say that. 

He still to this day never, just doesn’t really get it. I’ve tried to explain it to him. He shut offs it. Men, I mean he’s the only man that knows, who knows, who know, knows about this, so in my daughter’s life he’s the only man that knew about, that knows about this. He couldn’t deal with it at all, as I say, his reaction when we were on holiday. It was just, yes, he just, he, he, he just couldn’t cope with it. I could see him have a meltdown before my eyes. What, and then, he shouted at her and that made her feel worse. If that makes her feel worse, will she go and do it again? So I thought, “It’s best not to tell him because he’ll just make it worse. And you can sit down and explain it to him, how it works, why she does it.” But that never came, it never came. He found out before that, you know, which made it explosive. 

So ignorance, I think ignorance for my husband was his way of coping with it. I think he was almost, “I don’t want anything to do with it. What’s that all about? I don’t understand it. That’s just weird. What a weirdo, she wants attention and I’m not paying all that money. It’s just attention.” You know, initially, that was the initial kneejerk reaction.

It took a lot of explaining. And, and, and I’m just getting this information from a website, you know, that’s what’s stupid about it. It’s a very, it’s a very difficult subject because there’s no one there to help you, you know. I’m like, “Oh, my God, I’m explaining to you just from stuff that I’ve read.” And I’m, even I’m picking out bits that I think are right and wrong, so I might even be wrong, you know. It’s so, you know, so there’s that, but it’s that vicious circle. You worry about the dad not dealing with it, the kid feeling really bad about doing this to their family and then chopping theirself up even more, and then you’re even more anxious that they’ll make even more mess of theirselves. It’s horrible, yes. He, he just couldn’t deal with it. Even now he still doesn’t understand it. So his dealing with it was run away from it, pretend it’s not happening, definitely, right up till now, definitely. I mean he’ll talk about it now, still doesn’t get it or he doesn’t want to get it, doesn’t want to understand it because he thinks it’s weird. So, yes, there’s no, with him it was hard. And that makes it worse for the, the mother to deal with.

Jackie is still ‘on guard’ even though it is over a year since her daughter last harmed herself.

But here we are, you know. She’s not done it for, I mean for about a year now, in fact before my mum [died]. So it’s over a year since she’s done it. And there’s no lasting marks on her, which is good. But I’m always still on guard even after all this time still looking to see is she doing it? And I’ll always be like that because I just, the thought of her doing it makes me feel sick.

But I still find myself going up to her room, looking round her room for knives. Yesterday I was looking at her, her journal again. 

But it, and she does walk about, luckily for me, half naked a lot of the time. So I, I do find myself, not all the time, but I do find myself scanning her. I’m doing a scan but trying not to make it obvious, to see is, is there any fresh wounds, has she done it recently? You know, I’m always checking her, it was always the arms for her. She did do it on the legs a few times, but her choice was always her arms, lower arms, always the lower arms. But I was always checking everywhere else as well. 

So I’m al-, I will always always, always be on my guard, always I think, for ever. I think I will always be on my guard. I don’t think it ever leaves you. And it’s a horrible thing to carry around with you. I don’t worry about it all the time because I can’t, I can’t. I never worry about it until it happens. You know, I couldn’t, I’d drive myself demented. I’m not up there every day looking for knives. But certainly I do it, I do, do it, probably more than I’m aware of, checking. 

And, and, and then I watch for her mood. She’s in a dark place now obviously with the anniversary [of grandmother's death]. She came in last night, she was really quiet, she went up, I’m like, “Right, okay.” I left her, I didn’t harass her, I gave her, her space, I left her to go up to her room. And I’m not worried that she’s done anything, you know, but I will check her room. You know, there’s always that, it will always, always be there till the day I die I think, that thing that she’ll self-harm.

But I think that I, I would always, I would say to, if, if any parent were to ask me, and I have had a friend say to me, you know, “Do you have any advice?” my advice would be, “Al-, never ever let your guards down, never ever, never be relaxed about it, never.” Because I remember at one point my daughter, she hadn’t, I thought she hadn’t done it for about four months, and I instantly thought, I remember thinking, “Oh, I can relax, that stage of her life’s over. She’s done the drinking, she’s done the underage sex, she’s done the drugs, she’s done the dyeing her hair stupid colours. She’s done the self-harming. That’s it, it’s finished.” I gave my-, I lured myself into a false sense of security, “That’s another phase. That’s that done.” I think I felt maybe even more horrified when I f-, when I found out, “Shit, this isn’t a phase. She’s doing it again” you know. 

And that’s the les-, that’s the lesson I learned from that. Always, always be on your guard, but be, have a casual guard up. Make that guard not obvious to them, you know, do it in your own wee world. Always keep, you know, as, as I say, if she leaves her phone around I will look and see what’s going on, because I want to know what’s going on in her life. 

Jackie had various reasons for not contacting a GP.

I’m interested to hear a bit more about why you didn’t visit the GP.

I thought pills. My immediate thought was, “She will get put on a waiting list to see a counsellor. We’ve not got time to wait around for this. I want to see someone right now.” And then she ended up changing her mind when I sorted it anyway. So there was a part of me that would be, I did suggest to her, I did put that idea over it was very much, “I could make an appointment. She probably won’t go.” So there was a bit of that as well, there was a bit of that as well. Me personally, do you know what as well actually? which is really quite horrible, I’ve always been a carer and I didn’t want anything on her, you know, you have these medical things and they’re on your records, I didn’t want any of that, I didn’t want any of that. 

And at the time I was applying to be a day carer for social work as well, there was a bit of that going on as well. And also the main thing really was pills. I think there’s better ways than pills. I didn’t want, I thought, “We’ll go to the GP and they’ll say, ‘Right, oh, she’s depressed. There’s some pills.’” Her body changes and everything, you know, I didn’t want it interfering with that. I wanted, I, I like things to be natural. I’m not the sort of person that takes pills with a, a headache either. I’m funny like, I’m funny like that. I didn’t want her on pills, that’s definitely the main reason, and I didn’t want her put on a list of a hundred people to wait to see a counsellor. And she was dodgy about going, she was very flaky at that point, she wasn’t ready, she wasn’t ready for help ultimately.

And GPs are useless, I think they’re crap, to be honest. In dealing with that, I don’t think that they’ve got the training, they’ve not got the right training to deal, they don’t understand, they’ve not got the empathy, understanding. They, they, they don’t get it, they just don’t get it and so they just, “Right, okay, we’ll put you on a list.” And they’ve not got the time. They’ve got five minutes. You know, we’re having a, a crisis here. They’ve got five minutes, you know, “Get out, there, there’s a prescription, on you go.” They’ve not got the skills to deal with it or the time. So quite a few different reasons, quite a few different reasons, yes, I would never use GPs, you know. Unless I’ve got pneumonia or something you know, or I need signed off, which is just what I done with my mum, you know. 

But even then, even then, you know, I’m grieving, you know, my mum had died in my arms, I’ve turned up the next day, you know, and “ I need signed off, my mum died in my arms yesterday.” “Well, do you want some sleeping pills?” I’m like, “I want signed off, I don’t want sleeping pills.” “Are you sure, are you sure?” There’s too much of that pill culture going on. No, actually I’m sleeping fine, you know. Which I was, with the stress and everything you know. But they’re too, they’re not equipped enough. I didn’t want them dealing with my daughter. I didn’t want my daughter telling them and they’re, and they’re not interested because they’ve not got the time. She, we wouldn’t have had enough time to explain. I think it’s too serious an issue to give it five minutes and to explain, this is what’s really happening for me . They’re not counsellors. That’s the last person really I, that I would have seen , yes. I mean it wasn’t the per-, first person I thought about going to at all. That was like a total last resort, “If we can’t get a counsellor, if we can’t afford it, yes, we’ll see if we can get one from your GP.” But I didn’t want anything to do with GPs, yes. You can’t rely on them. Which is unfortunate, you know.

Jackie stuck a list of suggested activities on her daughter’s door to remind her of things that helped her feel better.

My idea, I know she’s always liked keeping fit. So then I put a list on her door. I took some of what he [American website] had suggested and some of my own ideas. “Right, I know she likes doing the gym and stuff. Look, if you feel like that, go for a jog.” So I done that. I think that helped her, I do a list for her and stuck it on her door. If she felt like she was going to harm, “Right, here’s some things you can do.” Go and walk the dog. Go and phone a friend. Just come down and see me if you need to cry. Or come down and see me and not necessarily talk about that. Company. Go and take the dog for a walk. Go and see your sister, she’s a great tool. She’ll have you colouring in, reading her stories, use your sister, you know. Which is, their, their relationship now is really tight. The, the, the turnaround, they’re really, really close, given the age difference.

Jackie wanted to make her home a ‘sanctuary’ for her daughter.

Even if you have that counselling and everything like that, I think if your home life is crap, you, you’re up against it. The child has got to come home to an environment that doesn’t have any conflict in it. It’s got to be an environment that’s welcoming and comfortable and warm. Because if you’re in an environment where there’s conflict, which there was before, it’s just going to make it a whole lot worse. You want them to think, “I’m desperate to get home to my sanctuary.” That’s what you want. You’ve got to make your home a sanctuary, you know, make the room comfortable, candles, make the room warm, comfortable, candles, lights, aromatherapy oils, make the room a sanctuary. Try and make your house a place that they can talk in. I would say that, definitely. But that’s all tough lessons it’s taken a long time, two and a half years, to really learn

Jackie found it helpful to share her experiences with a friend whose child was self-harming.

What do your friends do that helps?

Listen, chat, I don’t know, giggle, have a laugh. My friends give me the space that I need to just, just mouth off, just to say what I think. And I know that they won’t judge me, you know. A, a friend that I’ve had for, for years, you know, as I say, this particular friend that is going through the same stuff as me, she, we’ve got an understanding of each other. Her child’s a harmer. It help, it really helps to speak to someone. It’s funny because I saw the signs of my friend’s child doing this, I saw the signs. And we went out for a coffee one day and I said to her, “I think that she has the potential to be doing that.” And, and we have, we have, we’ve got such a good relationship that I felt comfortable saying that to her and she was, like, “No”. 

But she knew I wasn’t judging or anything like that, she knew I was concerned because I was going through it as well. And it wasn’t long after that that she, she came to me and she said, “Yes, this is happening.” And then she asked me, you know, how I deal with it and we just spoke about each other’s experiences of it. And it really helps to have someone that was going through the same that knew, “Do you know what? It’s not your fault. It’s actually no one’s fault. It’s life’s events. Shit happens. You just have to deal with it as best, as constructively as you can.” I gave her some what I would call tips I suppose of what I’ve learned. 

You’re being aware of stuff, you’re just sitting down giving them [friend] advice, you know. Making sure, “Look, if you’re going to do that," it sounds horrible, "if you’re going to chop yourself up then make sure it’s sterile, make sure there’s no mince on it from the night before! ..Make sure that you’re doing it in as safe a way as possible, if you can. Because it can be infected, you know, get bloody gangrene, you know.” So I spoke to her about that. 

So it not only helped her but it helped me as well to accept the whole situation. And j-, just having the space to chat to, to, like to your chums is really good. The chum that I spoke to about it isn’t going through this, it’s good to moan but it’s not nearly as helpful as speaking to someone who gets it, someone that’s going through it, definitely. You can help each other without being judged, without them thinking, “You’re a terrible parent.” 

Jackie’s daughter turned her life around and did not harm herself when faced with a ‘massive crisis’.

But she’s finally, touch wood, turned that corner to a certain amount of maturity. You know, she’s done the smoking, drinking, drugs, underage sex, she’s done all that. I’m like, “Do you know what? you know, she’s, she’s over it now.” It’s like, it’s like, she, she, she said that to me, “Mum” she said, “I’m bored with all that now, I’m bored. I’m on to a new phase of my life” which is having a stupid serious boyfriend. But I’m like, I’ll step back and I need to think about me, you know, and, and her sister and give her that space that she needs to discover that, “You’re not going to marry this guy, you know. It’s, you’re still too young for all that.” You know, but I try and keep back from it as much as I can. Some things I, I have, I have to mouth off because I can’t help myself. But she now knows that theoretically, you’re an adult here, “I could chuck you out if I wanted.” You know, that was in that last conversation I had with her. I said to her, “I don’t have to be responsible for you anymore. You want to be an idiot, go out drinking, you know, sleep around, go on, do it, leave, leave home, go.” That’s what I said to her, “Because I, I’m, I’m done with you now. At this point I can’t cope with you anymore. I need to think about my own sanity here, you know. I’ve done everything I can to support you. I, I can’t do any more.” And a result of that was that she has turned it around.

...But I think since she’s last done it, her gran died. She’s not done it since. She’s not done, she never done it when my mum died. And that was a major life change, a massive life change. So I think, so there’s hope for me, that gives me hope that, “That’s a massive crisis that she’s had and she’s not done it.” 

Jackie thought that Emergency Departments in general hospitals should provide ‘talking centres’ and give advice on ways to avoid self-harm.

When I was looking at websites I remember reading about people in healthcare feel that self-har-, self-harmers suck up a lot of the hospitals’ time, you know, by wounds needing stitched up, wounds becoming infected. So they see this influx of people coming in with wounds that are needing stitched up. They resent it, of course not all of them do, they resent it because they feel it’s sucking up a lot of their time, their resources. If they knock, if they knock this in the bud by means of having a space for people to talk about it, they’ll probably find they’re cutting the numbers. 

A space for, what, I mean, what I’m doing with my daughter is not costing money. She’s using a pen and paper to write, she’s going out jogging, you know, she, she comes and chats. That doesn’t cost any money. People don’t know that they’re good tools to use, simple tools are good to use when you’re feeling anxious and you’re feeling the urge to do it. 

So people need to be made aware, “Look, here’s some ideas for you. These are things that are really good for you to do.” The elastic band thing, put an elastic band on your wrist, you know, when you feel the urge, you ping it, you get the pain, that takes, it can help take the urge away. People need to know what self-harmers can do when they feel that urge, constructive ways of seeing them through it, ways that aren’t, you know, going to harm them and harm those that are with them. 

People need to have different ways of dealing with their issues, safer ways. And they don’t know these ways until they’re given that advice. And there’s no advice, there’s no people to give that advice basically. So these health workers, yeh, they’d probably find a massive reduction in people coming in to A and E to get wounds stitched. You know, they’re stitching these wounds up, they’re sending them away, and they’re doing it again. So that’s costing them more money than it ever would to set people up that are trained to deal with it. You know, just to, to have somewhere nice to go, almost like a living room environment where they can go and maybe meet their fellow harmers, a spot to, to chat and then, you know, to get advice about, you know, keeping things clean. How do you know if it’s a serious wound? How do you know when to go, “Oh, shit, this is bad, I need help.” 

There’s nothing like that. There’s kids could even bleed to death without realising it. There’s just, they need to sort it out. It’s a serious issue, it’s a serious issue that could cost them a hell of a lot less money if they had the resources out there to, to give just really, just talking centres is what I would call them. A talking centre, somewhere that’s casual, informal, there’s no pressure, there’s no stress. Somewhere they feel they can sit and have a coffee, and not chat about it if they don’t want to chat about it, you know, not that, that pressure thing, “Let’s all chat.” S-, a space they can go and be relaxed and chat about it if they want, but know that all these people that are here are harmers or people that can help you with it. But, you know, but for parents as well to go, a contact centre for people that are involved with it. It’s crucial, crucial or they’re just going to keep on stitching people up and kicking them back out. There’s not gonna be any change.