Naveed - Interview 21

Age at interview: 42

Age at diagnosis: 15

Brief Outline:

Naveed thought that he wasn't how 'youngsters were supposed to be' and saw his first hallucination when he was 5. When he was 16 he was told he had 'mental health problems' and had a breakdown in 2002 during which he couldn't leave the room for 18 months. Now he does extensive volunteering, and lives with his wife and two children.

Background:

Naveed is a volunteer, and is married with two children. Ethnic background' British Pakistani.

More about me...

Naveed’s mum had TB when she was pregnant with him, and so they left their home in Pakistan. Naveed was put into foster care for a year while she was in hospital having treatment for TB. He thinks that he ‘wasn’t how youngsters were supposed to be’. He said he was a ‘bit of a loner’ and was bullied at school. The first time he remembers seeing something was at the age of 5 when he saw a figure in the garden. He said his father was ‘old school’ but his mum understood. He used to get bad stomach-aches and go to the GP though there was no apparent physical cause. When he was 16 he went to hospital for a range of tests, which came back negative. The doctor said that he thought he had ‘mental health problems’. His GP gave him a cassette to listen to which explained about mental health problems. He was angry and was worried he was mad, and thought that people were going to react to him as if he was mad. When he came back from the doctors it was decided that no-one was going to know about these matters outside the family. His parents were worried that within the extended family he might face problems, that he wouldn’t be able to get married, or get a job. He had difficult relationships with the extended family on both sides. He used to talk to his mum but didn’t want to scare her with all the details. His mum would go with him to certain appointments but his dad didn’t want to as he ‘didn’t have time for psychiatrists’. He said that working with translators for his mum was difficult particularly because there weren’t Punjabi expressions for schizophrenia, mental health and clinical depression. His father and mother took him to healers, but he knew that there were no such things as jinns [spirits] or jadu [black magic]. However, to make them happy he would go along.

 

When the voices started he couldn’t quite ‘make it out’ as there were just a ‘lot of voices’. As time went on, he got the feeling they were talking about him and to him. There was a female voice that stuck up for him, but there were times that even she turned against him. One morning the voices told him to smother his own daughter, and he was so upset that he wanted to commit suicide, as he could take the criticism of himself but not of his daughter. He has made three serious attempts on his own life during time in which he was sick.

 

Naveed had a breakdown in 2002, during which he felt unable to leave the room for 18 months. He found that his Asian, Muslim friends had dropped him, and he realised then that his parents weren’t ashamed but were trying to protect him from others. He has had difficulty accessing other services such as dentistry as the receptionists laughed with each other about his having mental health problems. He didn’t want to go out for a bit, which was frustrating as the voices keep him at home anyway, without the additional fear of being ridiculed. He also experienced a locum being scared by the mention of his mental health, and numerous other serious instances of maltreatment when he questioned his medication or talked about suicide attempts. He complained and now has a new doctor. He had brief experience of counselling.

 

He has encountered prejudice in the community when he was explaining the new psychiatric hospital to people, as the term was translated in Urdu as ‘mad hospital’. He grew up with mainly Asian friends but now has a mixed group of friends, due in part to his involvement with different user groups. He now sees a herbalist, who is a qualified doctor, herbalist and an imam. Naveed has done a lot of work with the service user movement and set up several groups. He also volunteers with his local trust to do some work and leads advocacy groups.  

Naveed talks about visiting the dentist and hearing the receptionists laugh about his mental health problems.

Yes, so I’ve not seen a dentist since 2006 and a few weeks ago, I had pain in, in this side of the mouth. I was having a weak tooth it was like. And I went to see my GP and he said, “Oh it’s an infection.” So he gave me some antibiotics and about a week, two weeks after I finished the antibiotics, I had more pain again, so I went to see him again, and he said, “You need to go to a dentist.” And I saw my psychiatrist and he said the same thing. He said, “Go and see someone right. But if you’re worried just tell them that, you know, you’ve got a mental health problem, then hopefully they’ll take a bit more care of you.” So I went down to the dentist that used to be house like, and I walked in and I told him that I was having a lot of pain, and they gave me a form to fill in. And then I walked back again. I said, “Oh by the way, my doctor told me to tell you that I’ve got mental health problems.” And she said, “Okay.” And as I was walking away, the other girl asked her what I’d said, and she said, “Oh he said he’s got a mental health problem.” And they both started laughing. So … And I was, that’s really shocked me, because I didn’t expect that, because like I said, the stigma in the white community isn’t as bad as it is in the Asian community, but then in the Chinese community it’s even worse than in the Asian community. So I think… at the time it didn’t mean much to me but I think it has sort of knocked me back a bit, because you are about the fourth, fifth person I’ve told. So… 

 

It’s not a nice thing to have gone through. Yes.

 

You just try and get around it. Try and plough through. If you have run to every single negative remark people make to you, you wouldn’t get anywhere, you’d just be stuck at home or don’t want to go out the house or whatever. And I have enough of that when the voices are really bad, or when I’m seeing things. I’m really bad. I mean I spend that time at home anyway. And if I … then I spend time at home because of what someone said, I wouldn’t get out of the house at all, you know, so …. 

Naveed talks about many different reasons for his difficulties, including mental illness in his family and traumatic experiences.

My mental health problems… because they’re triggered off by something or something happens, but some people have them genetically and it’s genetic. It runs in the family so… I mean on my Dad’s side, even on my Mum’s side like one of her brothers used to have mental health problems. He’s also had epilepsy as well. And on my Dad’s side, and I think it’s skipped one or two generations, but I ended up with it so.

 

And what do you, I mean you’re saying what the doctors think of what causes your experiences, what do you think?

 

I think I was born with it you know, only people like this, you know, is born with the condition. And life’s events sort of made it worse. You know, so I already had it, you know, but life’s events sort of adds up to it, and makes it worse. Especially the bad experiences. Because I mean I can sit here, and I can stand in front of people like. I could tell them stories, like, and you could write novels like some of the bad things that have happened. Some of the good things that are quite touching like, you know, and some things that you don’t know whether to cry or laugh you know. But I just think that yes, I was born with the condition and life’s sort of added to it and made it worse, you know.

 

So what things have added to it that have made it worse?

 

I mean rejection. I mean my Dad’s side of the family they didn’t want to know. They didn’t acknowledge us. That you know, we were their nephews or nieces or their grandchildren. So I think the rejection could have been part of that. Like I said to you earlier, my Mum’s Mum died when my Mum was four years old, and her step Mum was really bad to my Mum. She was really bad to us and all. I mean that’s played a big part. You know, because every time I get treated badly by people outside I always think that had my Dad’s side of the family or my Mum’s side of the family, they treated us properly, then other people would have treated us probably. Because it always starts within, you know, our home, our family levels. And when people say, “Oh I told you in this confidence, how did get out, and you find that nine times out of ten its someone from your family, you know, who will go out and tell people this that and the other. So that’s played a big part, rejection. I mean people dying. I mean, I lost five mates in a car crash all at once. You know, and things, so things build up and things you know, add up. And some people will say to me sometimes, “Oh I can’t believe that you’ve been through all that and you’re still here.” You know, but what they don’t … and I told one my Mum this and she was really upset. I said, “When I go to bed at night, I pray that I don’t wake up in the morning.” And I said, “When I wake up about 2 in the morning, like or 3, I think oh shit I’m still here.” You know. Mum said, “People pray for all kind of good things like, and is that what you pray for?” And I said, “Yes, that’s what I pray for.” You know, because sometimes it gets too much and I just don’t want to be here, you know. 

Naveed regularly consults a herbalist about his health. He receives advice about his physical and mental state and the causes of his particular problems.

I mean I see a herbalist now right. He’s like three into one, he’s a fully qualified doctor, he’s herbalist and he’s also an imam. And, I’ve asked him, you know, “Am I possessed?” And he goes, “You’re not.” And I said, “I’ve been to hell.” And he goes, “The eyes give it away. Those are the first things to tell if someone’s possessed or jadu [black magic] has been done… is the eyes you know, know.” And he goes, “You’re not possessed.” He goes, “You’re just ill.” He goes, “You’ve got a weak mind, you know.” And he goes, “You’re just ill.” You know, he goes, “You’re not possessed.” So … I mean I like the guy. I’ve got a lot of time for him. I respect him and I go and see him quite regularly. Because I get chest pains and all, and I start panicking with that. It’s like I’m having a heart attack or something like that. But they’re saying, it’s like acid dry and its like gastro… is it gastroenteritis they call it, whatever.

 

Yes. Sometime like that. So I see him quite a bit. Like, you know, and you know, I respect him when he says, you know, “You’re not mad.” What’s the name. You’re not possessed, it’s just you’ve got a illness.” You know, so…

 

So what treatment does he give you?

 

He does like a.., like he holds his scriptures out and then sort of blows on me like, and this tabiz you know. It’s from his hands like you know, so, he said, “You know, this should help you keep away all the evil spirits and this, that and the other, you know. Because you’re not possessed. You haven’t any rogue spirits.” He said, “No jadu no jinns, and this right is hoping we’ll keep them away from you, and you’re just ill like.” You know, so …

 

And do you know what script he put in the tabiz?

 

No. I did say to him, to just make sure the evil spirits stay away from me and jadus and jinns and those kind of things stay away from me, and he said okay. So he said, he goes, “It’s going to be really special, once, it’s going to take me about two weeks to do.” So it took him about two weeks to do it for me, you know.

Naveed first went to the doctor for stomach pains, and after some time was told by a doctor he had mental health problems. He was given a cassette about mental health, and his family kept his mental health problems secret.

And one day we went to the GP and my Dad said to him, “Well, you know, he’s in a lot of pain. He stays awake some nights with the pain.” And the doctor examined me, and said, “Well there’s nothing wrong with the boy. If I send him to hospital, they’re just going to operated.” And my Dad goes, “They’re not going to operate without, you know, having x-rays and checking to find out what’s wrong like.” But the doctor said, “No, no. They’re just going to operate.” So that scared my Dad. So we came back home and for about six years, I just sort of lived life, you know, with those problems. I didn’t go and see anyway. But they were terrified, because the doctor scared them, that if I had to go into hospital to have check ups, they were just going to operate. And then I think when I was about 15, 16 years old, we decided to change GP. And I went to this new doctor and he started treating me privately first. He used to give me an injection and he said that he was going to try and arrange for me to go and see a specialist. And then I got an appointment through to go to the, I think it was [name] Hospital for check ups on my stomach like. And I had all these different tests done and I was asked to come back in about ten days time or whatever. Then I went back after the ten days for the results and I was in this room and I was lying on couch, or that bed thing, and this consultant and a lot of students, they didn’t even ask my permission, and all this students walked in, and I was laying on the bed, and he said, “Do you want to know the good news or the bad news?” And I said, “Give me the good news first.” And he said, “Well there’s nothing physically wrong with you actually. Nothing physically wrong with you. You know, it’s fine.” I said, “What’s the bad news?” And he goes, “I think that you’ve got mental health problems. But after getting in touch with the GP and we have to see if he sends you to a expert and then you get it from them. But as far as I’m concerned you have got mental health problems.” 

 

And how did that feel?

 

I didn’t even know what mental health problems meant at the time. And I came home and then I went to see my GP and he tried to explain to me. And he gave me a cassette to listen to, and that sort of explained about depression. And when I got home, I mean I was so angry, you know, after I’d listened to that cassette, because I said, “This can’t be me. I’m not mad, you know. People are going to think I’m mad and I’m not mad, you know.” That was my biggest concern was I’m mad and that’s how people are going to react to me. I was angry I was taking it out on my Mum. I wasn’t eating. I mean she used to carry my food around chasing me, “[Naveed] will you eat this?” “Eat that.” Right and I wouldn’t. I was so angry with the world and everything. And I said, “That can’t be me, because I’m not mad.” But I was terrified, you know. But that’s when it was decided. I mean I went to see the specialist. Like my GP sent me to someone and they sort of confirmed that, “Yes, you have mental health problems.” And came back home, and we discussed it as a family and it was decided that no one outside the family was going to know about it. My Mum, my Dad would know about it. Dad said simply leave it, you know. But it was decided that them two and myself, apart from us, no one is going to know about it, because, you know, people will start saying that I’m mad and this and that. So it was kept a secret for years and years.

 

Naveed first saw a woman standing by the side of his bed when he was seven and then had unexplained stomach pains for years.

So the first real experience I had, I think I was about seven years old. I woke up in the middle of the one night and I saw a woman standing by my bed and I screamed out and she disappeared and Mum and Dad got up and there were nothing there.

 

What did the woman look like?

 

She was like covered in black, here, you know, like Asian women wear burqa. She was up there. She was covered you know, in burqa, from head to toe. But I swore that there was a woman standing by my bed but Mum and Dad looked everywhere. Under the bed, all around the house and couldn’t find anyone.

 

So how did your parents react at this stage?

My father, is some old school like, he was, I don’t think he was that understanding. Mum was, you know, I mean and I could depend on my mum, because she wasn’t just my Mum, she was like my best friend, my Mum. You know, we could talk about anything. I could tell dirty jokes in front of her. Anything. And she’d just laugh. So, she sort of knew there was something up. But they didn’t want to admit it. You know, they didn’t want to, and don’t forget I wasn’t even diagnosed with anything at that time. And then it sort of manifested that I used to get stomach aches and really bad stomach aches, you know, and used to go to a GP. They used to take me to a GP and the GP used to have a look and say, “There’s nothing wrong with him. There’s nothing wrong with him.” So, this went on for maybe ten years. Going back and forth to a GP. 

Naveed talks about his parents taking him to a spiritual healer and says that he went to make them happy even though he does also believe in jinns [Islamic spirits] and jadu [black magic].

I mean every time my Father and Mum found out that there was someone that, you know, might be able to help me out. They said … I knew whatsername, I wasn’t possessed. There was no jinns. There was no jadu. There was no… I was ill. But just to make them happy I would go along, you know. 

 

I mean they took me to see someone in [place name]. My Father took me to see this person in [place name] once. And we went in there and we sat down and it was time to pray. So when we had said our prayers and then I eventually I saw him, and he was really… and in those days I had long hair. I used to have this film actor Amitabh Bachchan. I used to love his hair style and I used to have long hair like him. And my Mum used to say sometimes. “Oh you’re my Amitabh you my Amitabh.” 

 

And I went to see this guy and God he got a bucket of water, and he was reading stuff like, and by the end of it, I was like soaking wet from head to toe. Because he was trying to get the jinns out.

 

So was it, pou panni where you blow water….and say a prayer around it?

 

Yes, saying a prayer, and the scooping of blood with a bowl or a cup thing and he was like throwing it onto me like you. I said to my Dad, I said, “Dad I think they’ve gone. I think they’ve come out. You know, can we go home now?” We came home, and then sometimes down the line, my Dad found out that there was someone in [place] that you know, also could help out.

 

My Dad contacted him and he said, “Yes, tell your son to wear a shirt right and tie that he’s going to wear to [place]. When he gets here, tell him not to take it off, right. Sleep in that shirt the night, during the night. Don’t take it off in the morning. When he comes to see me then take it off.” I said, “Okay.” So we got up on the Friday and got dressed. And my said, “Which shirt are you going to wear, because you’re going to have to wear it like tomorrow afternoon or whatever until you see that guy. So I wore a shirt and so we went down to [place], stayed the night over and then went to see this person the next day. And he goes, “Have you slept in that shirt?” I said, “Yes. I did.” And he goes, “You can take it off now.” So I took it off and he laid it out. He measured it. And then he crumpled it up again. And I’m thinking bloody hell my Mum ironed that for me last night. And then he read something and he blew on it, and then he spread it out again and he measured it and he goes, “It’s slightly longer than it was before. So you’re possessed.”

 

And was it jinn possession you were suffering with?

 

yes, yes.

 

And what do you think about jinns, jadu?

 

I believe in them. I believe in jinns. I mean I’m wearing this [tabiz].

 

A tabiz

 

Yes. Well whatsername I know with me it’s not that, you know, it’s an illness.

Naveed heard voices telling him to harm his daughter, and felt so upset by this that he bought some razor blades, thinking of suicide.

They say so many bad things, but I personally feel the worst thing they ever said to me was, I woke up one morning and I wasn’t feeling very well, and I think my daughter must have been about four or five, three or four years old then. And they said, “Get that pillow and smother her.” 

 

And what I did, I got out of bed. Because she was lying in her cot ain’t it. I got out of bed. I didn’t get dressed. I was wearing my nightclothes, grabbed some money and cigarettes, I went to a shop, bought some cigarettes, bought some razor blades and I was going to do myself in on that particular day, because I… why did those voices tell me to do, you know, that to my daughter and what if I had done it, you know. So I’d rather die than do that to my daughter. You know, so … 

 

I think some people might say, “Oh how come that was the worst thing like. Because they told you to do something to your daughter. They way they’ve criticised you, and said things about you, that’s a lot worse.” But for me, personally, I don’t care about the criticism they, they give me and the way they criticise me, and made my life hell sometimes, but that was the worst thing when they asked me to actually smother my daughter.