David W - Interview 04
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David W first noticed he had a lump under the pectoral muscle whilst in the shower and again when he was on holiday in the summer. He kept an eye on it and in October went to see a locum GP who referred him for further checks a few weeks later. At this stage he had no thought that it could be cancer because neither he nor anyone in his family was aware that men could get breast cancer and he had previously had other lumps elsewhere which had just been fatty tissue.
David first noticed his lump on holiday. Later in the year he went to his GP surgery and the locum GP said he would refer him. His hospital appointment was not for another 10 weeks.
David first noticed his lump on holiday. Later in the year he went to his GP surgery and the locum GP said he would refer him. His hospital appointment was not for another 10 weeks.
I first noticed a problem? Believe it or not, I was on holiday. I think we were in Italy at the time, around Lake Garda, and shower, either drying or washing, I don’t know, but you just brush and you’re thinking “that’s strange, that.” I got my wife down yeah, it’s a lump of some sort, but didn’t think much about it, but this… it didn’t go away. I kept checking it every so… and it would, sort of underneath the, you know, underneath the pectoral muscles, around here somewhere, not thinking a lot about it, not knowing anything, just kept my eye on it and it kept going, but it wasn’t going away and sometimes it was, it seemed larger than, you know, other days, it just seemed to… oh, it’s gone again. Oh no, it’s still there. You know, because of the work schedule, decided to go… well, there was a window in the work schedule in October, so I went to the doctor’s in October, to the local GP. Unfortunately it was a locum because our GP was on holiday, so… saw the locum, who looked at it and he just said, “Well… don’t think there’s much to bother, it could be a cyst or something like… I don’t think there’s a lot to bother about, but we’ll have it checked out. I’ll refer to you to the hospital and let them have a look at it”, so… he just said “if you haven’t heard anything in two weeks, give us a ring or give the surgery a ring.” And I ain’t heard anything in two weeks. And I rang the surgery and they just said “haven’t got anything but we’ll check up for you, you know, we’ll make a few phone calls and see what’s going on, we’ll give you a ring back.” So within, I’d say within a couple of hours they rang me back and just said “yeah, there’s an appointment made for you, it will be in December”, which is like, ten, eleven weeks away from whenever. So thinking, I mean, little problems with, you know, lumps and bumps all over the body anyway, so I just thought, well, ten weeks is not too bad, you know? It’s pretty quick, really, so… went for the… on to the clinic, it were just a general surgery clinic, for them to have a look and I just, you know, mentioned that it was in the breast area and then he just looked and he just said “it’s not really – if you’d have been a woman and you developed a breast, that lump would be well underneath and nowhere near the breast anyway, so… but we’ll have it looked at” and he just felt around a little bit and went “mmm… I think we’ll have a scan on it”, you know, ultrasound.
David W was sent to a general surgery clinic. When they heard his lump was in the breast, he was sent for an ultrasound. Things went into 'overdrive' and he had a mammogram and biopsy.
David W was sent to a general surgery clinic. When they heard his lump was in the breast, he was sent for an ultrasound. Things went into 'overdrive' and he had a mammogram and biopsy.
So… went for the… on to the clinic, it were just a general surgery clinic, for them to have a look and I just, you know, mentioned that it was in the breast area and then he just looked and he just said “it’s not really – if you’d have been a woman and you developed a breast, that lump would be well underneath and nowhere near the breast anyway, so… but we’ll have it looked at” and he just felt around a little bit and went “mmm… I think we’ll have a scan on it”, you know, ultrasound. So they did an ultrasound and… bit of a jokey guy, I’m watching this little black blotch shape on the… I said is that… “Can you tell if it’s a boy or a girl?”, so we had a joke about that. And they went “mmm…” and they brought this picture of the thing on the screen. Nothing mentioned, and I didn’t know that, you know, as I say, cancer was nowhere in my thoughts cos I didn’t even know that men could get cancer. So from then on, I mean, it was like ten, eleven weeks before I got to the hospital, but once the pictures had started coming up, everything seemed to go into overdrive then. And from, say, going for the scan, we had a mammogram on… again, laughing, joke, said, “You won’t get my little things in” but, “Oh yeah, we can”. So we had a mammogram and then it were… because we’re based in [city], and [hospital] and another [hospital] are the same, or more or less the same health authority, it was a case, can you get to [hospital] for a biopsy? You know, we want to have a look at this… this thing going on. So I said yeah, when are we talking about? And this were, like, Monday. Can you get there for Wednesday? Yeah, yeah, fine, no problem. So as I said, made my way to the clinic in [hospital] which happened to be a breast clinic, and then walking round there, looking for a… “Well, what you doing? This is breast clinic?” You know? I said well, “I’ve been summoned”, I showed my papers, they went “oh, yeah”. “Come for a biopsy”. So… went for the biopsy. That’s uncomfortable, that. Shooting, shooting… it’s just like being… well, I’ve never been shot but it’s just… oh, stab! And took about five pieces of this thing out.
David W went on his own to get his results, not expecting to hear he had breast cancer. He noticed that there were a lot of people around as he went in to his consultation.
David W went on his own to get his results, not expecting to hear he had breast cancer. He noticed that there were a lot of people around as he went in to his consultation.
So I turns up, obviously [wife] said, “Do you want…?” I said, “No, I’ll be fine”. I said, “It’s just a result from this stupid lump, whatever it is”. Turned up for the clinic and I’m sat there and… there’s all women and only men that were there were supporting and whatever. Anyway, it came my turn and people were… “What’s he going in there for? You know, breast clinic and sorta thing”. Anyway, went in and the… [consultant], the specialist, was sort of sat at her desk and sat down by the side. “Right, mister, how are you doing?” “I’m fine, yeah.” We just had a chat and I noticed out the corner of my eye these people coming in from all directions, you know, until there were about five people stood around me and then she got down, she says, “Yeah, you know, you found this lump, we did a… ultrasound, a mammogram, fine needle core biopsy”, you know, “We’re sad to tell you you’ve got breast cancer.” I’m just… what? “Men don’t get…” “Oh yes, you do, and you’ve got it”. So you’re just thinking… all you’re hearing is the cancer. I mean, all the people I’ve ever known had cancer, they died within a short period, and that’s all you’re thinking, not knowing how bad it is and not knowing that, as I said, men could get breast cancer.
David didn't know men could get breast cancer so was really shocked when he got his diagnosis. He worried about how long he had got and how to tell his loved ones.
David didn't know men could get breast cancer so was really shocked when he got his diagnosis. He worried about how long he had got and how to tell his loved ones.
The specialist, was sort of sat at her desk and sat down by the side. “Right, mister, how are you doing?” “I’m fine, yeah.” We just had a chat and I noticed out the corner of my eye these people coming in from all directions, you know, until there were about five people stood around me and then she got down, she says, “Yeah, you know, you found this lump, we did a… ultrasound, a mammogram, fine needle core biopsy”, you know, “We’re sad to tell you you’ve got breast cancer.” I’m just… what? “Men don’t get…” “oh yes, you do, and you’ve got it”. So you’re just thinking… all you’re hearing is the cancer. I mean, all the people I’ve ever known had cancer, they died within a short period, and that’s all your thinking, not knowing how bad it is and not knowing that, as I said, men could get breast cancer. She’s telling me all that was gonna be going on, you’ll be having an operation and blah, blah, blah and you’ll be doing until we open you up, and you’re just thinking cancer, cancer, cancer. That’s all you hear is the cancer. How do you tell your loved ones you’ve got cancer? You know? It’s a lump, for God’s sake. I’ve had lumps all over the place and they’ve been nothing. Anyway, eventually you’re told that you’ll be having a mastectomy, a full mastectomy to the right side, depending until we open you up how bad it is what, you know taking the lymph nodes and whatever else, so yeah, fine, and you’re eventually given a load of leaflets and taken away to, you know, with a breast care nurse to give you the booklet with all these leaflets, “Take these leaflets away, [name]” and, you know, “this’ll tell you all you need to know.” So fine. You’re given, you know, after about half an hour or whatever, you’re walking out the hospital, walking back to my car and just sat in my car just going… how long have I got? Simple as. How do you tell, you know? I’ve got to phone [wife] who’s at work and I’ve got to phone the children who are both at work and I’ve got to go back to work meself and tell the people there I’ve got… you know, I’ve got a damn cancer. And your world just falls apart, really. As I say, I sat in my car about twenty minutes, something like that, before I went better phone, got on the mobile and phoned [my wife]. Got everybody told and we met, met at home to decide the future. I say it was the 19th of December so it’s just before Christmas. I thought well, what kind of Christmas are we gonna have, you know? And New Year as well, I wonder if this is gonna be the last one, etc, and then you’re just on edge then all the way through the operation.
David could not believe how well he felt when he came round after his mastectomy. He had no pain and felt that a load was lifted off his mind after the operation.
David could not believe how well he felt when he came round after his mastectomy. He had no pain and felt that a load was lifted off his mind after the operation.
So you look forward to this date and see how you’re going, and thinking you’re gonna go on a cancer ward but you’re just on a general surgeon ward and… I turns up for the hospital appointment, the operation was about 4pm and [wife] came to see me at 6 and I was just as right as a bobbin. Couldn’t believe how, how well, I felt, you know, you’ve lost all this side of your body and no pain, nothing. Just obviously coming round from the anaesthetic, but felt fine. Absolutely brilliant. [wife] was amazed and, you know, how well I looked. “You look really well” so I said “yeah, I feel really good.” And it were just like yeah, it’s happened, I’ve got rid, you know? A load’s lifted off your mind, really. I’ve come through the other side. Silly, in’t it, what you think? Anyway… get the hospital, the nurses and doctors said “what kind of painkillers do you want?” I said “well, what can I have?” They said “well, you can have anything from paracetamol to morphine, depending how bad the pain is.” I said well, actually, I’m not in any pain, which is unbelievable to think. As I say, you’ve lost all this side and you think there’s no pain. Obviously it’s in, you know, bandages and whatever else that you don’t really know, until they took the bandages off and sorta looking and you’re thinking .. they put a zip in, cos it’s just like, you see this staples from there and they disappear under your arm.
David heard female patients talking about the choices they had been offered and the treatment trials that they had been asked to take part in. He wondered why there were no similar choices for men.
David heard female patients talking about the choices they had been offered and the treatment trials that they had been asked to take part in. He wondered why there were no similar choices for men.
But as I said, you just accept that you’ve got to have everything that they tell you, until you start, you know, I’m sat in the chemotherapy room, going back to the chemo days now, but we’re in a room where there were maybe, you know, eight to twelve people and obviously all women cos they were all breast treatment on the same day, and you listen to them talking. “Oh, what kind of trial are you on?” “Oh, I’m on this trial” and “oh, I’m on this trial.” “Oh, I’m not having radiotherapy, I’m just trying this chemo.” “I ain’t had an operation.” I’m going, “hold on a minute, what’s going on here?” I were just told that I would be having a full operation, full mastectomy, I would be on chemotherapy and I would be on radiation treatment. There were no mentions of trials or what you want for this and what you want for that. I said “what’s all these trials?” “Oh, well, we were given the choice”. I thought oh, weren’t a choice for me. I were just told. Why not a choice for a man? I’ve no idea. When I started asking, “Oh, well, there’s no trials for men because there ain’t enough men get it”, simple as, and it’s down to cost, like everything’s down to cost, so… you can apply for these trials if you want, so obviously you’re recovering, they say you can’t do anything, so you’re trawling the internet looking for info and you’re finding all these trials, and I put my name down for trials. Trial here, trial there, only to get replies… oh, we’re only looking for pre-menopausal women or we’re only looking… I said, well, I’ll never had a menopause in my life so I’m ideal obviously. “Oh, but you’re a man, we don’t want men”. Simple as, you know? So nobody wanted a man.
When David went along for his chemotherapy he heard other patients talking about being on drug trials. When he put his name forward for a trial he was told they didn't want men.
When David went along for his chemotherapy he heard other patients talking about being on drug trials. When he put his name forward for a trial he was told they didn't want men.
I’m sat in the chemotherapy room, going back to the chemo days now, but we’re in a room where there were maybe, you know, eight to twelve people and obviously all women cos they were all breast treatment on the same day, and you listen to them talking. “Oh, what kind of trial are you on?” “Oh, I’m on this trial” and “oh, I’m on this trial.” “Oh, I’m not having radiotherapy, I’m just trying this chemo.” “I ain’t had an operation.” I’m going hold on a minute, what’s going on here? I were just told that I would be having a full operation, full mastectomy, I would be on chemotherapy and I would be on radiation treatment. There were no mentions of trials or what you want for this and what you want for that. I said, “What’s all these trials?” “Oh, well, we were given the choice”. I thought oh, weren’t a choice for me. I were just told. Why not a choice for a man? I’ve no idea. When I started asking, “oh, well, there’s no trials for men because there ain’t enough men get it”, simple as, and it’s down to cost, like everything’s down to cost, so… you can apply for these trials if you want, so obviously you’re recovering, they say you can’t do anything, so you’re trawling the internet looking for info and you’re finding all these trials, and I put my name down for trials. Trial here, trial there, only to get replies… oh, we’re only looking for pre-menopausal women or we’re only looking… I said, well, I’ll never had a menopause in my life so I’m ideal obviously. “Oh, but you’re a man, we don’t want men”. Simple as, you know? So nobody wanted a man.
David had brilliant support from his family and his wife was a 'brick'. He knew that his cancer was also a very difficult experience for his wife and children.
David had brilliant support from his family and his wife was a 'brick'. He knew that his cancer was also a very difficult experience for his wife and children.
At the time when you were going through it, what sort of support did you get from your family?
David said it was a relief to talk to a man who had had a mastectomy and chemotherapy. He felt the man he spoke to was able to answer his questions.
David said it was a relief to talk to a man who had had a mastectomy and chemotherapy. He felt the man he spoke to was able to answer his questions.
so… we got on with Breast Cancer Care and I heard about this peer support thing which is you can, you know, contact breast cancer... and they will put you in somebody, cos you’re wanting to know, I couldn’t find any answers to my questions. I wanted to know another man who had gone through this, but men are few and far between in this country. Only places where I could get information was America’s got a good site, Australia’s got a dedicated site for men with breast cancer, and… too far away. Can’t talk to men in Australia and America, I don’t know anybody, and eventually I went through this peer support with Breast Cancer Care and got in touch with a guy in [place] in Scotland, believe it… a guy called [man’s name]. And what a relief it were, talking to a guy who’d gone through exactly the same things that I’d gone through, who had had a mastectomy and who’d had chemotherapy and who’d had, he could answer all my questions, you know? And it was really good. Liked the idea, so I sort of, well, I’ll volunteer for this, you know, for this… but just been only a few months into the… well, you’ve got to be twelve months before you can do this.
David told 'every Tom, Dick and Harry' about his breast cancer so that they would know that men could get breast cancer.
David told 'every Tom, Dick and Harry' about his breast cancer so that they would know that men could get breast cancer.
So once you told your family about… and you’d had the day here with the four of you, who else did you tell after that?
David said that, even five years on from his diagnosis, he still finds that many people don't know that men can get breast cancer.
David said that, even five years on from his diagnosis, he still finds that many people don't know that men can get breast cancer.
It’s never, ever… it were never, ever mentioned that men could get breast cancer. I know it’s a few years down the line, but no, it were just a general shock. Oh, didn’t know men could get it, you know? It’s still happening today. I didn’t know men could get it. I remember being on a course with Breast Cancer Care in Sheffield and we were staying at a hotel and having a drink at the bar and the guy went “oh, you know, are you part of the delegation?” and I said “no, I’m a patient”. “What? You have…?” “Yeah”. “I didn’t know men could get it”. So we spent an evening with him, telling him that men could get it, you know? Really, really strange. And they say we’re now five years down the line and people are still going “men don’t get breast cancer, I’ve never known that.” So it’s still shocking.
David points out that there is no difference between breast cancer in men and women.
David points out that there is no difference between breast cancer in men and women.
No, I don’t like male breast cancer as I told you. I think breast cancer in men would be better because I always said “oh, I’ve got male breast cancer” and one guy, I don’t know if he was a medical or just somebody I met. I forget, it’s too long ago, and he just said there’s no difference between men breast cancer and women breast cancer, and you don’t call it female breast cancer so why should you call it male breast cancer? You know, which is right, when you look at it. It’s breast cancer in men would be the nice title, or a nicer title, and the guys I’ve met through the journey have all said the same thing, you know? Breast cancer in men better than… I know there is a lot that call it male bre… but what is the difference? There is no difference.
David no longer takes his shirt off because he is conscious of the sun, but he does think that it is easier for women to cover a mastectomy scar with specially-made clothes.
David no longer takes his shirt off because he is conscious of the sun, but he does think that it is easier for women to cover a mastectomy scar with specially-made clothes.
I’m not bothered now. Maybe at the time or maybe if I were younger, I don’t take me shirt off or owt like that, you know, cos you realise what that big sun can do to you. So I’m just very aware now. You know, so no, I’m not that bothered, no.