Susan - Interview 8
Two of Susan's sons have taken their own lives by hanging. Barry died in 1995 and Stephen died in April 2006. Susan has had support from various sources. She is still grieving but feels she must 'move on' for the sake of her other children.
Susan replenishes stock in a supermarket. She is married and has a grown up son and a teenage daughter. She had 2 other sons who died. Ethnic background/nationality: White English.
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Susan’s sons both took their own lives. Barry was aged 23 when he hung himself in 1995, and Stephen was 35 when he hung himself in April 2006.
Barry had various problems which he found hard to talk about with other people. Susan saw Barry two weeks before he died. He had cut his wrists and said that he did not want to live and could not promise that he would not try to kill himself again.
Susan recalls that before Barry cut his wrists he had asked to be admitted to hospital and but the psychiatrist had refused to admit him because he was not a danger to anyone else. When he cut his wrists he was taken to hospital but soon sent home again. Susan was very upset that her son was not given more help. Two weeks later Barry was found hanging in a garage near to his flat by two little girls.
Barry’s death was a terrible shock for Susan and her husband. However, she had half expected this to happen and although she felt terribly sad about Barry’s death she also felt a sense of relief that she no longer had to worry about him. When Susan, her husband and Stephen went to see Barry in the Chapel of Rest at the hospital he looked very peaceful, which was a comfort to Susan.
Many people attended Barry’s funeral, which took place in church. Susan and her family received wreaths from some of those who had worked with Barry in the catering business and from people who knew Barry through football. Barry was buried and had a really nice head stone with a picture of a lion.
Stephen had to give a statement at Barry’s inquest because he was the last person to see him alive. The coroner said that Barry’s death was due to suicide.
After Barry died a counsellor from the hospital visited Susan every fortnight for a year. Susan found this counselling most helpful. It was free.
Stephen never came to terms with Barry’s death. Susan suspects that Stephen felt a sense of guilt after Barry died, partly because they had planned to die together.
The year after Barry died Stephen was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, and was in and out of hospital for ten years. He usually had to go into hospital under a section order with a police escort.
Stephen often heard voices including Barry’s voice. After Stephen’s death a psychiatrist had told Susan that when Stephen could no longer hear his brother’s voice he had become suicidal. Susan felt angry that she had not been told about this. She was also angry that Stephen had access to illegal drugs when he was at the hospital. Both Barry and Stephen had taken drugs, such as cannabis, but at the time of their deaths no drugs were found in their bodies.
In April 2006 Susan’s husband found Stephen dead in his own flat. He had also taken his life by hanging. Susan was devastated. She couldn’t believe that Stephen had taken his own life. She felt upset and angry. She also felt guilty because of a row she had had with Stephen the previous Christmas, mainly about illegal drugs.
Susan and her husband went to see Stephen’s body at the Chapel of Rest at the undertakers. Susan found this “heartbreaking”, seeing a second son lying dead.
Stephen had a wonderful funeral, during which his sister read a lovely poem. The vicar read out a “talk” about Stephen composed by his father.
Perhaps the most difficult thing for Susan was telling her 15 year old daughter what had happened. Susan had to go to the school to find her daughter and tell her the terrible news. Since then, Seesaw has helped her daughter with counselling. The counsellor suggested that she should create memory boxes for both her brothers, which she did.
After Stephen died Susan had a “kind of breakdown”, and was off work for over three months. She says she thinks she was grieving for both her sons, and she felt like taking her own life. Her GP talked to her and gave her anti-depressants. Susan had support from family and colleagues. She also had some help from a Cruse counsellor, who she saw regularly for a year. Susan’s husband also had some counselling.
Stephen’s inquest was six months after his death. Susan’s husband had to give evidence about what had happened, which he found very distressing and traumatic. The coroner gave a verdict of death by suicide.
Susan is gradually coming to terms with what has happened and feels that she must “move on” for the sake of her other children. She has had a tattoo in order to remember her sons and has also put a memorial bench in the church yard.
Susan was interviewed in August 2007.
Explains why she thinks two of her sons committed suicide. Stephen had paranoid schizophrenia. Both boys took drugs such as cannabis and both had become paranoid.
Explains why she thinks two of her sons committed suicide. Stephen had paranoid schizophrenia. Both boys took drugs such as cannabis and both had become paranoid.
Right, twelve years ago I lost my first son aged 23, he committed suicide and then last April I lost another son aged 35, who did exactly the same, and committed suicide. It’s very very hard. I felt a lot of anger and sadness. I was more angry with my second son for doing what he did as he’d always promised that he would never do this to us. But I also understand that it was harder for him, trying to cope without his brother, and I think as time goes on I’m beginning to understand more why Stephen had to do what he did. He suffered with a mental illness for ten years, paranoid schizophrenia.
Was this the first one?
The second.
The second one, right.
He found that very hard, he would always say that he talked to his brother, he talked to his grandparents, and towards the end before he died, he felt that he was losing his brother’s voice, and I think this was always a danger we were told by the hospital, that if that happened then Stephen could become suicidal, but we didn’t find this out until after Stephen had died.
By losing his voice, he used to hear his voice?
Barry used to talk to Stephen, which gave him quite a lot of comfort, and also my parents which were Stephen’s grandparents, but Stephen also spoke to what he called a demon, which would tell him to do really bad things. And Stephen said that he was being punished and the demon was taking away Barry’s voice. It was getting fainter and fainter and he could no longer hear him, so Stephen deteriorated even more, which I believe actually led to Stephen’s suicide. I know that he never came to terms with Barry’s death; he blamed him self, as they had actually made a pact to die together, and obviously Stephen didn’t go through with that, why, we don’t know. And I think Stephen carried an awful lot of guilt after Barry died.
Why did, why did Barry decide to die?
Barry had a lot of problems, they both got into drugs quite badly in their teenage years, which I think didn’t help their problems, because Cannabis does cause paranoia and both my sons suffered with paranoia, although Barry was never diagnosed as being with schizophrenia.
Both her sons left suicide notes. Both told the rest of the family to remember the “good times” they had had together and to forget the “bad times”.
Both her sons left suicide notes. Both told the rest of the family to remember the “good times” they had had together and to forget the “bad times”.
Yet you still feel a sense of disbelief?
Yeah, yeah. I just, to be perfectly honest, I just didn’t think that Stephen had the guts basically to commit suicide. I really didn’t. And it’s still strange to me that he died exactly the same way that Barry did, he felt that he had to go the same way as Barry. Again he left a letter, and very very brief, but again he said the same as Barry had said, “Please don’t think about the bad times, think about the good times”, he left a separate letter to his sister, and he left a letter to his brother and his wife. He listed everything that he wanted somebody to have, and certain you know particular things, and one of the things that he did say in the letter was, “Don’t chuck anything, chuck anything away, please give it to charity.” He was very much like that, he didn’t like binning anything he, he always thought somebody could make use of it.
Susan had not been told about changes that might predict that Stephen would take his own life. She is angry that he had access to illegal drugs while in hospital.
Susan had not been told about changes that might predict that Stephen would take his own life. She is angry that he had access to illegal drugs while in hospital.
And I’ve got to be honest, I asked one of his carers, because when he, he had two main carers in the community as well as us, and I actually asked one of those carers, when Stephen was going through a really bad time, “Is Stephen suicidal?” And I was told, “No.” And it wasn’t until after Stephen died that we were told by his doctor on a meeting that we had, that they felt that if Stephen ever lost his brother’s voice, then he would be more likely to commit suicide. And again, I felt really angry, we were part of his care team for ten years, my husband especially, and yet we were never ever told, and I do understand that things do have to be kept confidential when people are a certain age, I quite understand that, but there’s lots of things that Stephen told the hospital that they couldn’t confide to us. Stephen talked to his Dad quite a lot, at different times.
What hadn’t you been told? You hadn’t been told that he might commit suicide if he lost the voices?
No. Not until…?
That’s what you’re cross about.
Yep, Not until actually after he died.
Mm. And you were aware that he had lost the voices.
Yeah, I was also very angry that Stephen would be able to get access to drugs, illicit drugs, and I actually put in a letter of complaint, stating what I felt, and why was he able to get drugs. Stephen’s biggest fear when he became ill and we knew that he was heading back into hospital, he would actually say to his Dad, “Please don’t send, let them take me back Dad.” Because he knew that the one place that he should’ve felt safe, he wasn’t, because he knew he’d have access to drugs.
He could get drugs in hospital?
Exactly, people coming onto the premises selling, and they know this goes on. They know it happens.
And this was only last year?
Yeah. And I was very very angry. I mean I know my husband visited Stephen one Sunday morning with his brother-in-law and Stephen was coming back from, they’ve got like a bit like a sort of nature reserve up there, and Stephen was coming back with a coloured guy that wasn’t a patient and my husband knew then and there that Stephen had had something off of him.
And you say it’s his money, that’s money that’s given to him by the state?
No, it was money, Stephen was on income support, because he couldn’t work.
Yes, so that’s his money.
Because of his illness, it was his money which he gave to his Dad to keep for him and he would have bits and bobs here and there. When Stephen was at home, he never touched drugs, he was fine. But as soon as he got back into the hospital he was back on the drug scene.
Susan felt depressed and suicidal after another son died by suicide. She felt she was going mad and went to her GP for help.
Susan felt depressed and suicidal after another son died by suicide. She felt she was going mad and went to her GP for help.
When you said you had a break down, what form did that take?
As I said, I felt quite suicidal, I couldn’t cope, didn’t want to do anything, couldn’t understand really how I was feeling, thought I was going mad at times, and I knew I needed help; I had to get help to get through it. It wasn’t something I was going be able to do on my own. And you may just think, “Oh you know, brush it under the carpet it’ll go away”. It wasn’t going to work like that.
Was that when you went to your GP?
I did yes. I didn’t like the feelings I was having, I was frightened. And I told my GP that, I told him everything, how I felt, but also the guilt side of things that I felt guilty because of what I was thinking, of what I was feeling.
Stephen’s death was reported in the evening paper. The huge headline “Father’s grief” shocked Susan (Stephen’s mother).
Stephen’s death was reported in the evening paper. The huge headline “Father’s grief” shocked Susan (Stephen’s mother).
Did the press ever get involved? Did you ever get newspaper people talking about it?
Only at the inquest, both the inquests were actually in the local paper. Not the daily paper, the evening paper.
Was that reported in a sensitive manner or not?
Yeah, I mean for Barry’s inquest it was very very small, very very small piece of inquest, Stephen’s was quite, quite the opposite, the headlines were huge, “Father’s Grief” which hit you straight in the face, which was a bit of a shock, you know, I don’t think my husband read it actually. I can’t remember if he did or not, yeah, it was quite a huge piece. Yeah.
Do you feel that the press shouldn’t report this or…?
We did ask if they could not be available but unfortunately you can’t stop them.
They have a right to come in?
They have a right, and so do anybody from the public outside. At inquests or court cases whatever, they can actually walk in and there’s nothing they can do. Yeah, you can’t stop it.