Interview 37
More about me...
Not convinced that she could breastfeed, this woman didn't make her decision to try until after her first baby was born. Most people to whom she had spoken had excuses for why they hadn't been able to breastfeed and she had a “picture of this horrible painful experience” in her head. Being an idealist, she wanted breastfeeding to be “lovely and beautiful” and the baby sleeping peacefully. She thinks that the best support you can get for breastfeeding is from somebody else who is doing it or has done it. She learned from her first baby and was much more confident with the others, “just feeding the baby when the baby needed feeding”. Apart from slightly sore nipples and mild engorgement at first, breastfeeding her first two was relatively straight forward but the baby was sleepy and slow to gain weight so she woke her for more frequent feeds for about a week. She also took fenugreek capsules and drank fennel tea to encourage her milk supply. Her first child slept in a Moses basket beside the bed but the other two slept in the family bed. She thinks this is especially important for the baby because she doesn't have the time for her that she had for her first child. For this reason, the evenings and nights are a special time for them and sleeping together cuts down the exhaustion. The family moved house between her first and second child and she found it much harder away from the support of family and friends so she joined a National Childbirth Trust coffee group to make new friends.
Having the midwife "shove" her breast into her baby's mouth did nothing for her confidence in...
Having the midwife "shove" her breast into her baby's mouth did nothing for her confidence in...
She has grown more confident about breastfeeding in public with each baby and has had only...
She has grown more confident about breastfeeding in public with each baby and has had only...
Her emotions at hearing her baby's cry over the telephone translated into the physical experience...
Her emotions at hearing her baby's cry over the telephone translated into the physical experience...
I have yes, particularly to start with I don't get it so much now that she's, that she's six months but I did used to get it quite a lot whether the baby was with me or not, I would be feeling a let-down. I've never been one of these people that it's been triggered by seeing other people's babies, or hearing other people's babies cry, but there was one time I was in [Supermarket], I was visiting my parents and we nipped to the shops to get some photographs developed, and I left the baby with my partner and said to him, 'Phone me when she starts to wake up and I'll come back'. And when he phoned we were in the queue, at the till, and it was a really, really long queue and I could hear the baby in the background, I could hear her crying, now I'd heard probably four or five babies around [Supermarket] and none of those had had any effect, I could hear my baby down the phone and there was milk everywhere, the milk just started flowing and I had to abandon my stuff in the queue, well I left it with, with my dad and just had to go home because there was just milk everywhere so, that was probably the worst one. I've had a few minor ones but that was probably the worst one, and I think that was because I could hear her, I could that was what she wanted and, you know, you're a mother and you can feel it in your tummy that your baby's crying and she needs you and, you know, nobody else could give her what she wanted and it was just I had to get back as soon as I could and by the time I got back my t-shirt was drenched so that was the worst let-down I ever had away from her.
Support from her partner made a big difference but the best support was that which she sought...
Support from her partner made a big difference but the best support was that which she sought...
So you got a lot of support from your partner once'
Yes.
'you came home?
Yeah, yeah.
Anybody else?
Various people within my family gave the general support that they give, that they could give but I don't think anybody felt in a position to help with feeding, you know, that was kind of, all that's your area and that's, I mean I'm not lucky enough to have my mum that lives nearby, I never have, and, you know, telephone support is, it's one thing, she came over when the baby was six weeks old and that, that made a big difference, and she's done the same whenever I've had any subsequent children, but, I found the support that I've sought out myself through the people I'd, people I've met in the NCT have been, have been great and I don't think there's any, any better support that you can get than, than that from somebody else who's either done it or is doing it, so I found the sort of coffee mornings and things like that once I, once the baby was, you know, a few weeks old and, you're able to get out and about, that was, that's been a great support, when I've had all of the children it's been, it's been immense, just to be able to talk to somebody else that's going through it, and you do find that as your confidence grows you're probably not so much getting the support from them, as supporting them but you don't even realise that at the time, you know, I think they, just having a conversation about breastfeeding I think, is for both of you just to hear somebody else saying, 'Oh I've done that' or, 'Yes and we've been there' it does make a big difference so that's where most of my support has come from, is from, from others that I've met.
And finding out that what you're going through'
Yeah.
'is normal?
And that somebody else has been there and done that or, it makes a big difference. Yes, yeah, I think when you have more than one child you find that you have so much else to think about, [baby coughs], and not having, not having sort of friends and family on the doorstep makes, makes a big difference, and when, when we moved we were quite, I felt quite isolated when I had my son, and my daughter was, three and a half, three years and nine months old when I had, when I had my s
She thinks that breastfeeding her children changed attitudes within her extended family and she...
She thinks that breastfeeding her children changed attitudes within her extended family and she...
I think that when you are looking, when you do speak to people, anybody that's had children, if they haven't breastfed, which a lot of people that I spoke to hadn't, they've always got a reason for it and it's usually something like, 'I couldn't because I didn't have enough milk', 'it hurt', 'the baby wouldn't ever settle', 'the baby didn't like it' you just, you hear more, you know, 'I had cracked nipples', 'I was engorged' and I think I'd, in my head had this picture of this horrible painful experience which it wasn't something that you would look forward to when you're having your baby. I wanted, you know, I wanted breastfeeding to be lovely and beautiful and, I'm an idealist I know I am and, I think that the thought of it being painful or, the baby not sleeping or, you know, nobody else being able to sort of participate in the care of the baby, all of these things, you know, they're all reasons not to, if you like, so when you think about things like that you do start to think, 'Oh am I going to be able to actually do this?' you do, you doubt yourself. It's not until you're actually doing something and you're doing it well that you realise you can do it.
So it's a confidence game?
Absolutely yeah, you have to, you have to get confident before you're happy about anything so, once you're doing it and you realise you can do it that's, that's when you feel happy about something.
I know one thing we haven't covered is, well we've kind of touched on it, is the father's role in all of this. You've said how supportive he was, does he come from a breastfeeding background?
Well, apparently he was breastfed but his brother wasn't, my mother-in-law is very helpful, very, very supportive but, you know, we have had, in terms of the support that she's given both of us, there have been times when she's said, 'Oh don't you think that, the baby should be on a bottle now?' and we've just said, 'Oh not yet we'll, you know, we're seeing, seeing how we go'. And the two of us were there with all of the children and one of the neighbours came in and, I started feeding the baby as you do and, it turned out that the neighbour's daughter was pregnant and my mother-in-law and her ended up having a conversation about breastfeeding and my mother-in-law was saying how, even breastfeeding for one month gives them such a wonderful start and, I remember [husband] and me coming away and saying, 'Did you hear what she said? Wasn't that amazing?' And I really think that, you know, considering to start with she wasn't that supportive and he didn't feel like, you know, it wasn't a foregone conclusion that, you know, he didn't have any strong feelings either way about breastfeeding but he feels that sort of the attitudes within the family have changed a lot now. And he, I mean he is really, really supportive, he doesn't, he never wants me to do anything that's not right for me, he would never force me into doing anything, he would never make me feel guilty about anything, I mean he is so, you know, so amazingly supportive, he wants us to do, you know, wants us to do what's right for us and for our family. But he, you know I think he's very happy and, he pointed out to us the other day, which I thought was really nice, he said that, as a result of this, my daughter who is seven will probably breastfeed, because this is her culture, this is what she's, she's now grown up with and that made me feel so proud [laughs] that, you know, one person, if seeing me breastfeed makes one person breastfeed then that makes me happy.
She regrets weaning her first baby to return to work but says that she will not make the same...
She regrets weaning her first baby to return to work but says that she will not make the same...
I can hear the regret obviously it's very, very strong.
Yeah.
How do you deal with that? How do you come to terms with it?
My way of coming to terms was it, with it was by not doing it again. that was my, the only thing I could do, I wasn't going to beat myself up about it and I can't, you know, at the end of the day I had a happy healthy baby and I can't, I can't complain about that, and everybody, if ever I did feel down, if ever I'd said, 'Oh I wish I hadn't stopped' that's exactly what everybody would point out to me is, you know, it's you that's feeling this not the baby,
She began to question herself and her milk supply when her baby gained weight slowly and got help...
She began to question herself and her milk supply when her baby gained weight slowly and got help...
I've got, polycystic ovaries, which, I'd read that can affect your milk supply and I'd had a friend who had quite, terrible problems with milk supply. and then when she was, the first twelve or, sort of twelve or fourteen weeks of her life she didn't put on as much weight as the health visitors said she should, she wasn't following the correct line on her chart, in fact this was about, this got to, it was about six or eight weeks and she'd not really put on any, any weight at all, although to me she was fine, and I was happy with how she was doing she, the health visitor said that she wasn't putting on weight at the right rate. This made me start to feel that perhaps, perhaps I wasn't making enough milk, although I've since learnt that, that wasn't, that wasn't the case at all. I worried about it, we did have a phase when she was, I couldn't tell you exactly, but around sort of two, two, three months where she started sleeping a bit too much for a baby for her age. Going large, long gaps between feeds and I was a bit worried that, well I wasn't really worried, but I did contact, I contacted an NCT breastfeeding counsellor, who was absolutely brilliant and said that sometimes, sometimes baby's who, who aren't getting quite enough milk they sometimes don't have, you know, enough energy and they can become sort of more lethargic. And she suggested something so simple that I was amazed that the health visitors hadn't suggested when, she said that if I felt the baby wasn't getting enough milk, or if I felt the baby was sleeping for slightly too long then, wake her up and feed her [laughs]. And looking back now it seems so basic and why on earth was I getting referred to consultant paediatricians for a baby that was failing to thrive before attacking the basic, the basic options of, you know, maybe feed her a little bit more and then she might put on a bit of weight? So we did that for, I think two days, woke her up, I was waking her up every two to three hours.
Night and day?
Yep night and day and, that week she put on about six ounces so, and from there on in she was great, it only took two or three days to get her, you know, back to, back to herself, so and she's not, not had a problem ever since and has put on weight at a wonderful rate so. But I did have a worry, at the time when, and when you think there is something wrong with your baby and when you've got somebody saying to you every week, 'Oh she's not put on enough, how long was she feeding for?' and, you know, you do start to doubt yourself, and this was the first time and, you think, 'My third baby I shouldn't be having these problems I should be' and to some extent I think that the health professionals thought that, 'It's her third baby she's done it enough, she doesn't need any kind of support, we can, you know, we're better off channelling our energies somewhere else'. So I was pretty much sort of left to it, but as I said, I spoke to the NCT breastfeeding counsellor and she sort of said, 'Well let's get back to basics here, what are you worried about?' and I said, "Well I'm worried that, you know, she's having these really long sleeps in the day, you know, sort of five, six hours sometimes' and she said, 'Okay have you tried waking her up?' [laughs] and I thought, 'Well there's, there's an idea'. And once we started that it was absolutely fine, and she's put on weight. Although, I stopped going to get her weighed, I decided that.
So you were saying that something just as simple as feed her more often, wake her up and feed her more often?
Yes I think that when, when there is a problem, which, which there was, it was a problem, the, your instinct is to look f
She described having her first baby in a Moses basket beside her bed but subsequent babies slept...
She described having her first baby in a Moses basket beside her bed but subsequent babies slept...
Did you have the baby in the room with you?
Yes I did.
In the early days I'm talking about.
Yes, yes my first daughter was in the Moses basket next to the bed she was in with us until she was about six months old and she always slept next to the bed she didn't ever sleep in the bed with us. I think that was a lot to do with having, maybe read a little too much [laughs] and, with subsequent children and, with my six months old she slept in the bed with us which I think is why we've sa, no, no problems at all with breastfeeding [laughs] with this one.
Do you want to elaborate on that a little bit more?
In terms of her sleeping in, in with me now?
And no problems why.
I think I don't know if it was because she was the third child I just relaxed so much more with her and started to appreciate the time that I had just with her, because when you've got other children, or other things, or jobs, or anything else you don't have the one-to-one time, I don't have the one-to-one time with my baby now that I had with my first daughter because I have so many other things to do. So I found that, you know, night times and evenings are sort of a real special time when it's just the two of us and we can just relax and, the night time feeding is exhausting if you have to get up, lift the baby up, sit up, prop your pillows up, get comfortable, change the nappy, all the things that I did with my first daughter, this baby doesn't get her nappy changed in the middle of the night unless she absolutely needs it, I don't even turn the light on when she wakes up [laughs], I don't think I even wake up most of the time now, I just, I lift my nightie, latch her on and go back off to sleep and, it makes such a difference, you wake up in the morning not feeling like, for all you probably have fed three or four times in the night, you don't feel like you've been up three or four times in the night and it makes a difference for my partner too, because he can just sleep all night, he barely knows that, that we're awake, I mean he will wake up and, you know, 'Do you ne