Breastfeeding

From one extreme to the other, you know, and was looking for it quite often and he would've been a long feeder, you know? And you nearly just did feel sometimes that's what you're doing nearly all day when my husband went out I was feeding, when he came in I was feeding, whenever he left to go out again I was feeding, but I just felt as if I wanted to breastfeed and I thought, 'Well I'll go on'. Initially as I say my, my sister-in-law, she had done it for four months and I thought, 'Well if I could do it for that length of time' I didn't know how long you can breastfeed for, I went to the feeding group and there was a girl there and her child was, I think nearly two, and there was other mothers and, and their children were six months and eight months and I thought, 'Oh you can still feed to that length of time' and whenever it got to four months I thought, 'Well I'll go on to six months, I don't have to change the formula milk, to follow on milk', and I got to six months and it just, the routine then just kept on going and then I thought, 'Well I'll go to the year and I'll just put them on cow's milk' and that's what I did.

So you set yourself little milestones?

Yes.

How did you feel as a young mother with a little baby when you saw the nearly two year old feeding, do you remember, were you shocked? Interested, just astounded? 

Yeah I think kind of, I think kind of surprised, you know, I think whenever you think of breastfeeding you do think of babies and sometimes whenever you see a youngster running around initially you kind of think, 'Oh my goodness', I know a lot of ones it's, they think, what about the teeth? And, you know, they kind of think once they have teeth that's it no more breastfeeding but we would have, I'd say half the group, and there's new mums come in and they see how long we have been breastfeeding for, and we're also trying to encourage some mums in the antenatal classes, there's a few of us from the breastfeeding group will go now at the time when they do the breastfeeding talk and they can ask us questions, and that's one, one question I asked, one of the mums is, 'What do you think when you see my daughter sitting there?' You know, because at that stage she was about thirteen months, I said, 'What do you think?'

And what did they say?

One of them said, 'Well, it could be for you, it wouldn't be for me but if you want to do it that's alright' and I says, 'Well to tell you the truth I never thought it'd be for me either' and because I'd fed my son on for the year I thought I'd try and feed my daughter for the year too. Whenever it came to the time she was the year, it was winter time my son was bringing home colds and whatnot from the school, I thought she would still be getting the benefits of it, she did have the cold but it never settled on her chest and I thought, 'Well I'm giving her the resistance to this', so I, thought 'I'd feed her on till they got over this, and then she was due her MMR jab so it was 'I'll feed her on until after this' and then I'll feed her on to the two weeks later in case she reacts.

Can we just go back to an earlier topic about seeing an older child feeding.

Uh-huh.

You wanted to tell me a bit more about that.

Whenever you're starting off to breastfeed and you have all those number of feeds and for the length of time and all the rest of it, you sort of assume that that's how it will always be, whereas whenever they get older they might feed for less and sometimes they might feed maybe slightly more frequently i

He's two and a half. It's funny I never thought I would, I never really thought how long I was going to feed for, I always knew I would plan to feed till about thirteen, fourteen months 'cause that's when my wonderful role models, my sister and my sister-in-law had fed till. And certainly until eighteen months, lots of my friends had fed fourteen, fifteen, sixteen months. I kind of always assumed I would be weaned by eighteen months, but hell we've waited this long [laughs] for it, and he gets so much comfort from it, and it's a special time, that I made a decision that I wanted to wean him naturally. I mean, there have been moments when it's caused issues and tensions with my whole family dynamic, and I've got to keep everyone happy, I want everyone to be happy in the family, I only feed him once a day now and he knows that, you know, if he asks me now I say, 'Yes, yes in the morning'. So he knows and it kind of gives him comfort that he knows that there's a time, but I have to say it has been so wonderful, there was, when he was about eighteen months old he got very poorly and he needed to have an IV drip put in and I went to the hospital and the doctor was quite a young doctor and I said, 'Do you mind if I feed him while they're putting in the line?'. And you could see the look he said, 'Well what you could do is maybe feed him after to comfort him' and I said, 'Well [pause] okay I understand your idea'. I mean basically he was thinking that he might associate my breast with the pain but he was too smart for that, I think also maybe he didn't want me in the room while he was putting a line in, but my feisty eighteen month old was feeding from me and hardly flinched while that needle went in, and I know that he would have been hysterical and they would have to pin him down if I hadn't been feeding him at that time. So there's been definite moments, and also there's, there's been points where he's had really nasty tummy bugs and he hasn't been able to tolerate anything apart from my milk. And also when we've been travelling it's been great, we went to South Africa, my husband was lecturing out there, and we went on holiday and a magical moment for me was feeding on the top of Table Mountain. We were there it was actually Valentines Day, a year ago, and people were walking by, most people didn't notice at all 'cause you can't even see what's happening, but there I was sort of me attaining my dream and it's very much led by [2nd son], if he hadn't wanted to do it I would have completely understood, like [1st son] didn't want to, it didn't work for him, but for [2nd son] it's been really important.
 

So this baby breastfed for how long?

It's been four and a half, five years.

So by then she's quite large.

Mmm very large.

What do your friends and family say?

That she, really she should have stopped feeding by now but it had, I mean it wasn't a regular thing, it wasn't well, no tell a lie, it was regular but it was just at a particular time of day.

Such as?

I think it was just bedtime basically, it was just a night time, it really got down to that, to that point, but yes I mean it was, it was quite unusual, it wasn't something that any of not anything that our friends at the time had experienced or displayed and certainly none of the family to my knowledge had fed a child for that long.

What did you think of it?

I really wanted it to come to an end by that stage, I.

Because?

I think it was just a case that really it was time to move on, I felt that it was getting in the way of my daughter actually then moving on to the next stage of her life and to some degree it was, you know, getting in-between, not myself and my wife, but it was something that I think we just needed to move on from, rightly or wrongly. I did put a link between my daughter not being particularly settled or able to settle herself to go to sleep, she still needed this sort of contact with mum to go to sleep and she was still at that stage where she, you know, she couldn't really, settle herself and go and put herself to sleep. So of course it then meant things were very much more difficult for everybody really it couldn't, you know, we couldn't go out for example because, 'cause mum had to put her to bed, if she woke up she'd have to have mum there to put her back to sleep so it just made the whole experience of being a married couple more difficult I guess.

What did you do about that?

In the end it kind of, sort of developed, my wife fell pregnant for number two and that was pretty much it because I think then she being my wife, had actually then put a, the whole sort of situation into perspective whatever you want to call it and she decided that well, you know, I can't be feeding both of them when this baby comes then really I need to be feeding the baby and not and not the child, the five year old, or six as she almost was when the second baby came along. so it was much more of a conscious, a conscious effort at that stage that she'd that, you know, she tried to stop feeding, cut it out completely, and that's when it stopped [sighs].

Did you raise the issue of this long term feeding?

[Sighs].

Can you remember the responses you got, how a conversation like that might have gone?

We talked about it, I always take the approach that, you know, very much it's a biological thing and that, you know, there is there is a big emotional bond between mum and baby and I think that's probably more important than the yeah, you know the lifestyle issues that perhaps it was causing difficulty with, and when we discussed it wasn't particularly something, I'm not the kind of person that will say, 'Look you've got to stop and, you know, this is what you do and you do it now' because, you know, there are obviously reasons for them for it continuing. So the conversations weren't particularly forceful if I remember rig

I guess the other thing is also the one, for me one problem is, one reason not to stop at about fourteen months is, you know, you want to be able to go out and have a good drink sometimes and, you know, be able to have a night out, because you feel a bit guilty almost even, I had, I used to have a glass of wine in the evening, I think people say that's okay but you still feel a little bit, you sort of want your body back, you know, after a year [laughs] but, I'd say give it a good six weeks and then 'cause I think by then it will be, you know, it'll be much easier than you think it's going to be.

Can you talk to me a bit more about wanting your body back?

Yeah I think just wanting, I think 'cause the only downside for me of breastfeeding is I did feel slightly tired all the time, I'm sure I felt, I'm sure it does make you tired 'cause it's quite a drain and also, you know, you go to a party and everyone's drinking and you feel like you can't because you're breastfeeding and also, you know, you've got quite big boobs and, you know, not very attractive to my husband, you know, you feel like, I feel like I'm still almost like part of the pregnancy phase almost still, you're still very much attached to the baby which is a really lovely thing and it's wonderful but I think also after a year you start thinking, 'I want to feel, feel that sort of feeling of having energy again'. And also I don't know, getting your figure back as well I think, I know breastfeeding is very good for getting your figure back in the early stages but I also think to some extent when you're feeding your body still holds on to, holds on to fat and I feel like, you know, you just don't feel quite like you used to until afterwards. I think it's the tiredness is the main thing I'm sure it made me more tired than anything and just being attached to, attached to the baby you can't go off for a weekend or, well you can but it's always a bit of a stress and not being able to, you know, have a couple of glasses and not feel guilty really.
 

I did with my first one as well, second one as well, I fed him as well, and actually when my son was born I was feeding my daughter, my first daughter as well because she was only one so I felt as if I was breastfeeding two, but even at that time I felt as if that was my duty, she needs this, this is providing for her naturally and she needs it, and I need to give it to her, you know, it was just so natural I wasn't thinking at all, it's going to be so hard for me, he's breastfeeding and, that, only, it's like I had no, I don't know why I just didn't think, I was just thinking I was like doing the right duty mother to them. And I was actually, felt as if I was breastfeeding two twins because she was.

So just tell me how you worked that, logistically...

Yeah.

...did you feed one and then the other or both at the same time?

They were both at the same time, because I had my son in my lap feeding him from one breast and she wasn't walking at that time because she was only one and thirteen days old, and I'm talking about the day I got back from hospital, and she was, the difference between them was one year and fourteen days at that time, so as soon as I got into the house, my husband brought me home from hospital, and he settled me down and everything and he said, 'I think he's ready for a feed' and I said, 'Yeah' so I put him on and she crawled up to me and she said to, I said to her like, 'Do you want dudu?' because I thought maybe I've gone to hospital she's forgotten it all, and she started nodding her head and saying, in my language, 'Yes, yes', so I was like, I was like trying to fumble, fumble with my top to get her to the other breast and she just like helped me as well, and lifted my top up as well and, she was actually holding on to the settee and, and clinging on, was standing up and clinging on to my, one of my other breasts and just taking it off there, she was just taking, sucking it off my other breast while my son was like on my, arm, was on my arm on this other breast.

So she was desperate?

Yeah she was like, yeah she was just, and I, and even at that time I didn't, I felt proud that, 'Oh look she's, even until now she's one and I thought maybe she's forgotten but she's still breastfeeding off me' and I felt so proud but, still it was just that, it's what they, what I'm meant to be doing for them, that's how I felt all the time.

So what happened to your milk supply in that time? Obviously you were feeding her before you went in what, once or twice a day?

Yeah I was, when I got back from hospital and well like I said, I fed her straightaway and that then I had the midwife come in to see my son and examine him and then I had the health visitor coming in and they were asking me like how am I doing with the breastfeeding? I said, 'Well I'm doing fine' I had no problems whatsoever as well, but when I told her that I was breastfeeding my daughter as well who's one, and they let me do it until, until my son was two weeks old, and they said I have to stop, that I had no choice because there won't be enough for him then. Because she's a growing child, and she was taking most of the feed, most of the milk, and it's going to take a time to produce again and she was saying that and then he, probably ready for his feed at about, say about two and half hours later, and they'll be having, you'll be having difficulty all that but they were saying it's entirely up to me what I wanted to do but it's best for him because he needed it more at that time, and she was a growing child, she was taking most of it, so they were, they were persuading me to stop as soon as possible. So, well at two weeks I took it up to two weeks, I wanted to take it more but then I understood because he needed it as well so, I had no problems taking her off all I explained to her, I was saying to her, you know, “brother needs it more now, and mummy’s dudu is only for brother” and I was like talking it with her and all and I was saying “now you’re a big girl now, you need to have this” and, she was a, I was so struck because she was so understanding, and she actually just said “oh” then I said “oh you want dudu?” about three weeks later I said “you want dudu?” “no, no, no” and it’s just like saying ‘bye bye’ in our language means ‘my brother needs it’, you know, “bye, bye dudu” she was saying that and I was just so shocked, you know, and I was like saying like, you know, you, and you think children don’t understand at that tiny age but, one and a half, it’s a lot understanding for them, you know, and she actually did understand then, and she’s eleven today, she even understands today very easily because she’s done it [laughs] right from the beginning.

Yeah. What I want to try and understand is when you went into hospital to have your second baby and you were no longer feeding your first for those three days.

Yes.

What was happening to your milk supply then?

Oh.

Were you full?

Yeah I was, I was very, I was so engorged and I was very full, and my breasts were as if they were going to like burst any minute, they were like full, overfilled balloons and I actually had a lot of pain in them as well, and I went, I was thinking ‘as soon as this baby’s born I hope’ it goes he, he or she goes onto my breast straightaway so I can be like relieved of this, the gush that wants to come out [laughs] and I was actually leaking as well and he was, I was great, very lucky because as soon he was born, plus he was ten days overdue, and as soon as he was born and, I says “I want him straightaway, I don’t want you to clean him or anything, I want him, you, on my chest straightaway” which they did straightaway and, and, within, within a minute he was on my breasts, and I was, as soon as he was on my breasts I was like oh relieved you know? Oh thank God, you know, this is what I wanted, but so newborn babies they’re not doing that deeper suck straightaway unless they’re like very, very hungry, they’re like taking it just from the top and you’re thinking “oo take a bit more” you know oh take it all out, take” [laughs], you know, but, I, he was, he was a very big boy and he was, and ah he was a hungry boy, about, every one and a half an hour I was feeding him.

There was a lot of milk for him…

Yeah.

…to cope with as a newborn.

Yeah there was, a lot, I had a lot, I was a, I wasn’t, I wasn’t very short of supply, even for the, like I said, she was one year old, he was, she was taking it off me as well, and I had a lot of milk.

So nobody in the hospital suggested that you bring your daughter in to try and relieve this engorgement?

No because they hadn’t known you see because that she still breastfeed, I was still breastfeeding the other one, they hadn’t known anything about it, it’s like when I never even told them that as well.

Did you notice the difference when you were feeding the two, when your oldest daughter…

And my son.

…and then you had, your son was born, when your new milk came in did you notice a difference then or you just got engorged, you didn’t notice any difference?

No but I did, I was like so busy looking after them, and I was just so, you know, like, feeding them, looking after them, changing their clothes, and that’s all I was doing because they, babies are so demanding, and I wouldn’t pursue no I didn’t realise any difference, and I was actually, when I, when I told my friend and I’m “this is what I’m doing feeding the other one” she saying “what, what are you doing?” you know “are you sure? Can you cope?” I says “well I am coping already, I haven’t had any problems yet” you know and I had a very supportive husband, you know, he was very supporting to me, every time I had child, every time I had a baby and I was more grateful to him as well because like, when I was told I had to stop my daughter as well and he was like helping me, so not like ignoring, thinking that ‘oh that’s her job she’ll get on with it, she’s started it, she’ll finish it’ you know, he wasn’t like that, and he was very understanding and he was saying, you know, he was helping as much as he can because babe, and it was, he’s like a hard work I understand but, then again you need to have some of the help from, mostly it’s from your partner which makes it easier for you to cope no matter how many babies you have. So I didn’t realise any difference when I was feeding him, it’ what, the only thing that was in me was like, they need me that’s it, they need me and this is what I need to do for them, that’s what I was going through you know.

I’m going to a baby café doing a voluntary job now, and going to one, and sometime I say I see mums and I get carried away talking about babies, I have, end up telling them all about what I’ve been through, and sometime I get hear, I see them going “no oh you did?” you know “you were actually feeding one of, one smaller, one tiny?” I said “well I, at that time I didn’t think it was a thing I was doing” but now when I tell somebody I think ‘oh I was doing something good then’ you know, and I should be proud of myself doing that, you know.

And you didn’t do it with any of the others just the…

I didn’t.

…first two?

Yeah because I only had, only a one, one year and thirteen days difference, and she wasn’t even walking, she was just crawling.

And they were the closest ones?

Yeah they were the closest one and I, and I actually felt sorry for her, when I had my son I actually felt sorry for her thinking she’s so tiny and look what I’m doing, so I felt, I think I should feel grateful that I, I just did that for her, at least have that milk sharing with her brother for two weeks. I feel proud of myself thinking that back now.

So when, when I was that was when I were, my daughter she was nine months then, I was breastfeeding her then so she had to, she was on my breast as they were actually all the family was struggling to look after her till like, you know, say that I'm in the hospital or anything, she wasn't speaking much as well but then again she, the same as others, she was eating what they were feeding and everything, and I was in the hospital so I, they induced me and everything, they got rid of everything what they needed to do and it was about twelve, twelve centimetres baby, a little tiny one and they, and then they took me upstairs in the ward and I had a midwife come up to me, she says to me, 'Have you got milk coming through?' and I said, 'Yeah I have' because I was, 'Yeah' I said, 'Yes I have' I didn't say much to her, she says to me, 'Well we have this medicine we can give you to dry up your milk' and I looked at her, and I said to her, 'Oh, oh, why?' you know, 'I don't want to dry up my milk' she said, 'Well, well it's no good to you is it? Because you haven't got a baby' and I says, 'Well I have a baby at home, nine months old that can breastfeed off me' and she says, 'Are you sure?' I said, 'Yeah I'm still breastfeeding her, when I go into the hospital and this happened I was still breastfeeding I hadn't gone off it yet, she hadn't gone off it yet and I was deciding, I hadn't known that this was going to happen to me I was thinking of deciding well near to my, end of my pregnancy I was deciding to stop her, if it, if I could but since this has happened she's still breastfeeding off me' and she, she was giving me these looks like, thinking, you know, 'What rubbish are you talking about?' or something like that, I said, 'Well no I'm sorry I don't want to take these tablets I'm' and I was glad I didn't take them because when I got back from hospital two days later and my baby was ready for that milk, and she was taking off me perfectly and, and she was nine months then and I went for a holiday after that, after the miscarriage I was, my husband took me away on a holiday to get, you know, give me some time to myself and she was a year old then, and she was still breastfeeding. And when I got back, when I went home, back home to my in-laws and they, they said to her, you know, like, 'You be, give yourself some time and that' and so they'd started giving her cow's milk inside a cup and she took to it, and they were feeding her, looking after her, all three of them she, they were looking after and I didn't know where they were and they treated me like a queen, I was there, and that's how it happened with her so I was thinking, with that, when I had that miscarriage they were actually wanting to dry my milk up, I'm glad I didn't take that, maybe at that time it probably would, but then again I'm thinking, 'If I did take it' and when with my fourth one, what if I didn't produce any milk what if that, had that infection or, you know, affected it in some way and I was dried up for completely or something, so I was glad I didn't take that medicine from the hospitals, and that's when they wanted [laughs] wanted to give me that medicine when I had that miscarriage and they're thinking that I, that milk was no good to me.