Pamela and Anthony - Interview 11

Age at interview: 78

Brief Outline: We spoke to Anthony and Pamela after they took part in screening for unrecognised heart valve disease. Both were told they had minor problems and were invited to attend another appointment. We spoke to Anthony again after this appointment. Sadly, Pamela died of another illness during this time.

Background: Pamela and Anthony are married and have 2 adult children. Anthony used to be a design engineer and Pamela worked in accounts for the NHS. Since retiring they have been running their own catering business together. Ethnic background/nationality' White English.

More about me...

Anthony received a letter asking if he’d take part in research looking at screening people for previously unrecognised heart valve disease. He used to work as an engineer in a research organisation, so he feels strongly in favour of medical research and quickly decided to take part. Pamela rang to make the appointment for him, and was asked by the receptionist if there was anyone else in the house aged over 65. She said she was, and that she would also like to take part. Both of them saw themselves as generally fit and active, and did not worry much about their health, but would rather find out early if there is something wrong. Pamela continued to go for breast screening every 3 years, even after passing the age when women are automatically included, and was very glad she did as she was found to have breast cancer, which was successfully treated.

 

So Pamela and Anthony went to the health centre together and had heart valve screening appointments one after the other. The fact that it was local was a bonus – they themselves would not have minded going to the nearest big hospital if necessary, but thought some other people might have been put off by that. Anthony found it particularly interesting to see the technology used, and they both thought the person doing the screening was excellent and very pleasant. Pamela was told she had some narrowing of the heart valves, while Anthony was told he had a leaky valve. They were both reassured that this was not unusual for people of their age and probably nothing to worry about. At the time of the first interview, they were told they may be invited for a further appointment, and both would be happy to attend this. 

Six months after the initial appointment, Anthony attended a follow-up at a hospital. We spoke to him again after this appointment and were saddened to learn that Pamela had passed away suddenly of a condition that was unlikely to have been related to the heart valve problems uncovered by screening. Unsurprisingly, Anthony was greatly upset by her death, but was keen to share his experiences with us. He reported that he was not worried or anxious during the time between the appointments. The procedure was the same as before and did not take very long. The results indicated that there had been no change in his condition since he was first screened. 

 

Anthony says he is not particularly anxious about the leaky valve and it has not affected his levels of activity, but occasionally he does think about it. Both he and Pamela reported that they were well informed and had positive views about the good care they received, both as part of the screening research and when Pamela was being treated for breast cancer. Their advice to anyone else asked to take part in research was to take up the offer, as it may help you personally as well as helping the research. 

 

Anthony thinks at his age health problems are unavoidable. He would rather know if something is...

Well, I suppose a positive thing is that I’ve got something, I mean, I’m 81, so you don’t’ get to 81 without having some defects or other. If, if you, if it was we’d to, live forever sort of thing, wouldn’t we? But, I mean, no, you get to 81 and, and I feel very pleased that, well you found a little thing but it’s something which I can live with, which is all right. And as I say the fact that, medically that you now know that I’ve got this, if anything happens in the future then they’ve got a good claw, you know, good reason why, or not a good reason, but they know something which it could possibly be. They’re not going be having to search. They, they’re, you know, for something they, they know that that’s there and that’s it.

 

Yeah, very good. I think it’s I’m quite happy that I know I’m even happier the fact that it hasn’t [laughs] going to shorten my life or do something like that to me. And I think it’s a good thing. You know, there’s no point in burying you head in the sand if you’ve got an ache and a pain somewhere It’s really far better to know what it is. Whether you decide to do anything about it afterwards is up to you entirely. But it’s you know, I think it’s better to know what you’ve got than bury your head in the sand and do nothing about it.

 

And is there anything you think you could do about it?

 

[Sighs] I’m not aware of anything that I could do. You know, I’ve just, I’ve, I try to eat sensibly. I try to have reasonable exercise. I try to live a sensible life. And I think that’s important. You know, I’ve never been interested really in having a lot of, to drink or anything of this sort of thing but, I mean, you just have to be sensible about things, don’t you? That’s my feeling about life [laughs].

 

And do you think it’s made you be even more sensible about your life and take care over what you eat and that sort of thing?

 

It’s possibly made me sort of think a little bit more about not doing sense, stupid things. As I say, with my present situation in having, you know, lost Pam, things like car have become very important to me living in the country as I do, so, therefore, I’m very, very careful when I go out, as I will be going two or three time this week, not to drink. Not to, I mean, I might have one drink but that’s not anymore no more than that. And you know, just be sensible about things. I’ve never smoked so I’ve never had the problem with smoking and I feel sorry for people that do start and smoking at young age and find it very difficult to get over. And I feel quite pleased that I haven’t smoked because I feel that if I’d spent all that money on smoking, I would not have been able to do a lot of the things that I have done since. I spent, as I’ve said to you, I’ve spent a lot of money on holidays and things like this which we both thoroughly enjoy and you know, I think this is, you’ve just got to be sensible in life. You know, if you want to do something you do it and that’s what my mother always taught me. She always said to me, “If you want something boy and you can afford it, have it. Don’t put it off till tomorrow because tomorrow never comes.”  

The experience was entirely positive for Anthony and Pam, and he'd encourage anyone else to take...

And how do you feel about your whole experience now from going to the first appointment and going to the follow up appointment?

 

I’m very happy about it. Yeah, I think it’s a good thing to do. Because, you know, you don’t learn more unless you can do this sort of thing really. And it’s only by doing it that you then, the only thing I would think about it is this are you sort of wasting your time with me with [laughs] when you know, there might be other people around that need it more sort of thing. But I mean, I’m quite happy about that. I mean, it’s yeah.

 

And what do you think about the screening process itself now? Do you think it’s worthwhile or would you recommend other people should go for it?

 

Yes, definitely. Yes, I would definitely think that, it’s a thing that other people ought to do [sighs]. Whether you’d say everybody ought to do it, I don’t know but you know, there’s, I would think it’s one of those things that ought to be done, as I say. Unless you do research you can’t find cures for things, can you? And that’s, it’s a simple as that really. And I’m quite happy to take part in it. No, no problems from my point of view. And then if Pam was here she’s say exactly the same thing. She was, we, we were both more than happy. In fact, when I got the appointment to go for the [research project], she said, “Oh, I wonder if I could do that.” And, you know, that she, it, we both thought it was a good thing to do. 

Pamela explains that her husband was invited to take part but when she rang the surgery to fix an...

When we got the original letter we discussed it and we thought it was a really good idea, not only for us but for other people. But it was, the letter was originally sent just to my husband, because I think probably because he was 80. Well, then I rang the Health Centre to make an appointment for him to go and see the person to do the research, and the lady on the phone said to me, “Is there anyone in the house that’s over 65 as well?” and I said, “Well yes, I am,” so she said, “Do you want to come as well?” And I thought “Oh brilliant! So I may as well go as well.” So that’s how it started and we had appointments one after the other on, you know, one morning, the day before it snowed, and that was fine. 

Pamela and Anthony took part mainly because medical research needs volunteers to improve...

And how did you feel when you got that letter? Were you, did you quickly make up your mind this was something you wanted to do?

 

Anthony' Yes we did, it wasn’t any problem to us. I mean, medical science will not advance unless people do this sort of thing so it’s, you know, it’s fair enough. Having worked in a research establishment, I’m used to that sort of thing going on and realise what happens, and you know, we were both in full agreement with it, so it’s no problem.

 

And have you got any family history of heart problems either of you?

 

Pamela' My father did have something because he died when he was 41, but he didn’t die of a heart condition. But he hadn’t got a very good heart but, you know, in those days, it was a long time ago, I don’t know exactly what he had because he died of food poisoning, you see, in the war.

 

Anthony' I’m not aware of – sorry - I’m not aware of anything on my side with people having heart problems. My father died at 94, and as his doctor said to him, “It’s just old age, you know, everything’s just wearing out.” And it was as simple as that, so.

 

Pamela' Mm, yes.

 

So you weren’t particularly expecting anything to be wrong?

 

Pamela' No.

 

Anthony' No.

 

No, okay. At the same time, were you hoping for some benefit from the programme for yourselves?

 

Pamela' Well, we did think that if they find out there’s something wrong, it’s better to find it out now, than us carrying on thinking there’s nothing wrong with us and there is something [laughter], you know.

 

Anthony' Yes, that’s true, you know, I think this is, it’s better to look at these things at the early stage rather than letting things go on and then it becomes too late. 

Pamela supports animal testing if it's essential and the animals are well looked after. She and...

Pamela' I’m not all that keen on animal research, but on the other hand I’d rather animals were used and if it’s going to save some lives of people well, you know, that is good. Because my brother worked at a medical research place with animals you see, and they did get really lovely treatment. I mean they’re not, like people think, tortured to death, because they’re not, are they?

 

Anthony' No.

 

Pamela' They’re looked after properly and taken great care of, and so if they use that and it’s going to help keep people alive, well I, you know, I quite agree with that.

 

Anthony' Yes, I wouldn’t want to see animals ill-treated, but I mean - certainly not. But I think you’ve got to take everything, bear things in mind, really. I wouldn’t want to see masses of animals being used when, you know, one or two could be used or other methods could be used, but obviously as research goes on, different methods develop, and you know, it may be in the future you don’t need to use animals, but.

 

And I think probably this is the last thing I want to ask you, is, if you were offered other opportunities for different types of research, what you’d feel about that?

 

Pamela' Yes, we would go.

 

Anthony' Yes, we’d be quite happy about that, yes.

 

Pamela' Yes because, you know, not only might it help us but, you know, it is good to help other people if you can, and if by just going for a few appointments and a few things like that, that’s not taking up much of our time.

 

Anthony' No.

 

Pamela' And if it’s going to save somebody’s lives, well that’s wonderful.

 

Anthony' Mm. I mean, for instance I wouldn’t mind if I was sort of say fitted with something like a pacemaker or something like that, if it was going to do something. I’m not volunteering for it, if you know what I mean, [laughter] but I would be quite happy if they, if they wanted to do something of that sort or one of these monitors that you can wear that, I’d be quite happy with that. We would, wouldn’t we?

 

Pamela' Yes, yes we’d do anything like that. 

Pamela and Anthony thought it was wonderful that the screening could be done in their local...

Were you quite surprised that this was happening sort of with this level of equipment actually in the--?

 

Pamela' Yes, I thought it was wonderful that we, you know, that they’ve got things like that, that they can bring out and use. You know, but medical science has changed so much, hasn’t it? There’s so many wonderful things now that, if you had things 50 years ago you would have just been left, but not now. It’s great.

 

I think one of the things that they’re interested in, in setting up this research programme and testing it here, is how feasible it is to have it in local Health Centres?

 

Pamela' Yes, yes.

 

Does it seem to be fine?

 

Pamela' Yes that would be good because then, you know, everyone could be dealt with and there are a lot of people that would be frightened to go to [city] or somewhere else but if they could go into their own Health Centre they’d think, “Oh well, I might as well have it done,” wouldn’t they?

 

Anthony' Yes I agree with that. I think it’s nicer to be in your own environment or somewhere that you know rather than - to be quite honest, going into the [hospital] always sort of you know, there’s always this sort of fear about it a little bit, anyway but.

 

Yes.

 

Anthony' Although it’s very pleasant in there, of course.

 

Pamela' But I think it will, you know, it would be much better for people if they could just go in there, because there are a lot of very shy people that don’t really like to do anything.

 

And also in terms of access, I guess, it’s closer and easier to get to.

 

Pamela' Oh yes. It doesn’t take us a minute in the car. Well, ten minutes and we’re there, aren’t we?

 

Anthony' Mm. 

Anthony was fascinated by the ultrasound technology. He and Pamela found the whole experience...

Pamela' We went to the Health Centre and we sat in the waiting room and she called us in, and I said to her, when I went in, that the next day I was going to see a surgeon about the breast cancer, you see. So I said, “Do you want me to come, because of that?” and she said, “Oh no, that doesn’t make any difference.” And it was all very nice in there and she was a really nice girl, and I quite, you know, I didn’t mind being there at all, it was fine. Very easy and nice, wasn’t it?

 

Anthony' Yes. Actually I went - we went in one after each other. I went in first, and I was very interested in the equipment apart from anything else , you know, it was something which I found quite interesting. She actually showed me pictures of my heart and what not, which I found very interesting. It was very good.

 

Did she show you while she was doing it or was that afterwards?

 

Anthony' Afterwards. Well, after she’d actually done it we started talking to each other about things and I said, “Well, we used to use ultrasound for crack detection in metals” and she said, “Would you like to see it?” and I said, “Oh yes I would, really very, very much!” and it was very interesting, yes. It—

 

And - sorry.

 

Anthony' It was surprising how clear the pictures were as well. It was very good.

 

And was it comfortable and dignified?

 

Pamela' Oh yes, all lovely, yes.

 

Anthony' Yes, it was very, yes.

 

Pamela' Yes, all very nice.

 

Anthony' There was no stress or anything of the sort. In fact, just the opposite! It was quite an enjoyable sort of experience, in a way [laughter].

 

I think you have to strip to the waist don’t you, was that a problem?

 

Pamela' No. No, since then I’ve had to do that so many times [laughter]. No, no, we’re not silly like that.

 

Anthony' No, no.

 

Would you have minded more if it was a man doing it?

 

Pamela' No, it wouldn’t make any difference, no. 

Pamela discovered she had a narrowed valve, while Anthony had a leaky valve. They have not...

So moving onto what she told you when she’d scanned you both, tell me what she told you and how you felt about it.

 

Pamela' Well, she just said that there was some sort of narrowing of a thing, but it was normal, you know, in view of age, and she said, “You might be called to do something else but, you know, don’t worry about anything. You’ll be alright.” So we came out of there and didn’t worry about it at all, did we?

 

Anthony' No. Well, in my case, of course, the valve occasionally doesn’t sort of seal properly. I think that’s what she was saying. It doesn’t close properly. And she said did I feel anything? And I said “Well no, I’ve never been conscious of anything at all.” I think since I’ve had it done I’ve sort of thought about it a bit more, but I still haven’t noticed anything. I can still run up and down the path if I want to and things like this.

 

Pamela' Yes.

 

Anthony' It doesn’t appear to have done anything, you know, being conscious of it hasn’t affected me in any way.

 

And what did she say to you about whether you’d need a follow-up appointment?

 

Anthony' Well, what she said was that the valve, not that it wouldn’t affect me, she didn’t, you know - it wasn’t serious. It was a sort of age thing and, you know, and as you said, they may ask me to do various other things, which I said I would be quite happy to do, you know, quite happy with that. 

Anthony and Pamela appreciated getting detailed results in the letter. If they had wanted more...

Pamela' She just said there was something but it was nothing to worry about, and then we had the letter with the thing and we read it and put it in the drawer and didn’t worry about it.

 

Anthony' Yes, yes. That’s the same in my case as well. She just said there was something and I said, “Oh yes”.

 

Pamela' You see I think you’ve got to realise that when you’re 78 and 80, you’re bound to have something wrong with you, because otherwise it’d be a miracle, wouldn’t it? [Laughter].

 

Yes. So you just take it on the chin, in a way.

 

Pamela' Yes.

 

Anthony' Yes

 

Yes. What did you think about that letter when that came?

 

Pamela' What, with all the details?

 

Yes.

Pamela' I thought it was very good how they’d gone to all the trouble of putting all that out, you know, and sending it all out in full.

 

Uh-huh.

 

Pamela' Wasn’t it?

 

Anthony' Yes.

 

Pamela' I mean, not that we understood all the exact things, but at least it was in the open. It’s much better than being, you know, people wouldn’t tell you anything. If they didn’t tell you anything you might start to think all sorts of things. But if something comes in the open I don’t think you’ve got to worry about it anymore.

 

Anthony' I think we’ve grown up in a generation of people when doctors didn’t tell you what was wrong with you. And I think…

 

Pamela' Which was bad.

 

Anthony'...we’ve now over the years become more used to the fact that doctors do tell you what’s going on, truthfully, and don’t try and gloss things over. And I think this is you know, I feel quite happy about it, I’m not worried about it in any way.

 

Do you think there’s anything they could do to improve that letter, because I know it’s quite complex isn’t it with a lot of figures…

 

Pamela' No I thought it was fine, we both thought, didn’t we?

 

Anthony' Yes.

Anthony waited six months for a follow up appointment but didn't worry at all while waiting. He...

How long did you have to wait between your first appointment for screening and then your follow-up appointment?

 

Six months.

 

Six months.

 

Yes.

 

And how did you feel during that time?

 

What the waiting period?

 

Perfectly all right. I didn’t sort of worry about it or think about it. It didn’t worry me at all. As I think I’ve said before I’m very happy to take part in a research. I worked in a research establishment. I think it’s a good thing to do.

 

And at your first appointment you were told you had a leaky valve?

 

Yes.

 

And had you been given any information about what that might mean at the time?

 

I hadn’t before I did, before I knew that I got it, I didn’t have any information about it. The lady explained to me a little bit about it and said that it, you know, wasn’t serious and it was quite common for my age group sort of thing. It certainly doesn’t affect me in anything I do. I can still run up and down the path even now if I want to [chuckles]. Not as fast as I could a few years ago, but it, it doesn’t worry me. And I do quite a lot of physical work. I’m quite happy about it.

 

No, no problem.

 

And after that appointment were you expecting to be called for a follow up?

 

Yes. Yes.

 

They did say that you know, quite possibly would be called for a follow up. I was quite happy about that, that was, that was, that was OK, yes.

 

OK.

 

No problem. 

The follow up appointment was very efficient and similar to the first one. Anthony and Pamela...

The appointment was very much to time. We were, you know, we went in, both Pam and I were I think I went in first and you know, it, it was all very nice, very, it was very good. Same lady that I’d seen before, she was very pleasant and as I said, I’d shown an interest in the equipment before and she was very good. Excellent. Yes. And Pam said afterwards that you know, although she’d had a, a mammogram done before, previous, that she was very good about it, and she knew every, everything was very pleasant and was quite, we both quite enjoyed it actually…

 

OK.

 

It wasn’t unpleasant.

 

And was the hospital a convenient location for you to have to go to?

 

Yes, yes, it was, it was quite easy to, it was about 20 odd miles I think from here but it’s an easy, very easy journey.

 

Yes. No trouble.

 

And how did you feel about your follow up appointment being in a hospital because your first one had been at your local health centre, hadn’t it?

 

Didn’t make any difference at all. I mean, it, it was just the same. I don’t have anything about going to hospitals. It’s as I say I’m fortunate that I don’t, I haven’t had to go personally very often [laughs] but it’s no, it wasn’t any problem. That was all right, yes. Yeah. We just made a day, I think we went and had lunch afterwards and that was [laughs]…

 

Made a day of it.

 

That’s right, yes.

 

And so what actually happened? You arrived and you were sitting in the waiting room and then you were called in?

 

Yes.

 

And then what happened?

 

I went in she explained again what she was going to do, which was similar to what she’d done before. Did I lie on the couch? I think I laid on a, on a couch. She had the equipment by the side of her and you know, we went from there.

 

It was all, it was very pleasant actually [laughs] It was quite nice. She, as I say, she was a nice person and it was nice to talk to and we had a bit of chat in between and it was very good.

 

And how long did it last for?

 

Anthony' [sighs] Difficult to say. It wasn’t very long. It could have been sort of 20 minutes; it may have been half an hour, sort of thing. But it wasn’t any longer than that. It was only a few minutes, it may have been quarter of an hour but it, time went very quickly.

 

And then what did she tell you was your condition whenever you’d finished?

 

She explained that I’d still got this leaky valve and that it hadn’t sort of, I don’t think she said it had changed from when she’d examined me before, it was still the same. And you know, if I hadn’t had any problems in my life up to then with it there was no reason why I should have any problems now. And certainly I haven’t had any problems - sorry I’m a bit superstitious - with it, since and as I say I feel perfectly all right. No, it’s OK. In fact, I was very surprised when she said I’d got a leaky valve because I didn’t think I’d got anything wrong with me at all [laughs].

 

And so has knowing that made you feel any differently about yourself?

 

No, not really. No, I’m just the, basically the same. There’s othe