Patient and public involvement in research
The costs of being involved and payment
People who got involved in research told us about the costs to them. These aren’t just financial costs, but include costs in terms of time, energy and emotion. After their son’s death, Kath chose to review grant proposals at first because going to meetings was too emotional. Jennifer said she had broken down once or twice in meetings; Derek once had to leave the room and take a few deep breaths after hearing a distressing description of an operation. Helena said for her it was more to do with the stress of getting your points across: ‘there is a potential emotional toll but I think it's more to do with whether you're listened to really.’ Tiredness can be a particular problem for people with some conditions, but everyone can find it tiring reading documents and travelling to meetings. It can also be frustrating and stressful; Hazel knew people who had dropped out because of this.
It can be hard talking about cancer, but it’s a way to help others now Stephen can’t train as a doctor.
It can be hard talking about cancer, but it’s a way to help others now Stephen can’t train as a doctor.
Does it have a sort of an emotional cost, the PPI for you? What would you say?
Yes. Because obviously… I’ve experienced cancer, obviously it has its afflictions and obviously kind of having to kind of discuss it so objectively, some of the time, can be quite, yeah quite hard. But, at the same time, I think kind of benefits outweigh any negatives and you’re there to kind of help out and improve research and kind of make less emotional concerns for patients in the future. So I think that kind of outweighs everything.
As I say all this is up in the air, because my long-term health is in doubt. So I’ve decided not to study medicine, but originally, yeah, medicine and kind of still having this kind of patient and public kind of backdrop probably. I think they’ve complemented each other quite well.
Do you think the involvement has made it some way, made you change how you think about yourself?
Yeah, I’ve always wanted to kind of help others and become a doctor, but doing it kind of indirectly through research... it’s a different way of doing it because the stuff is not personal one-to-one helping another person, but it’s still a way of helping others, and helping others probably on a kind of grander scale and helping more people you see. So I think yes, that’s helped me a lot.
What have you particularly enjoyed about taking part over the last six months? What have been the kind of highlights of the things you’ve really enjoyed or perhaps you’re naturally good at?
I just like the kind of social interaction with all the different people you get to meet and then, the main thing is that it’s for a kind of good cause, and you feel like you’re making a difference and that’s the other important thing.
Having a long-term condition is tiring, so Catherine has to ‘budget’ her time. She finds it easier to be involved through email.
Having a long-term condition is tiring, so Catherine has to ‘budget’ her time. She finds it easier to be involved through email.
Today I'm having a quiet day at home because yesterday I went out to work for the day. So I have to budget my time, I would, I need plenty of notice because of my condition so being given notice at something three months away I would then not book anything else in the week that I went to that meeting, not because I could only do one meeting but I know that other things will come along that I'll need to put in that week, but I wouldn't plan to do two big things in a week. So I find that my long term condition which is basically one that , is one of energy management, if you're managing packets of energy, that my involvement with this would require me not to book anything else when I have involvement, if it's a major piece of involvement. If it's just, as I say, incoming emails, my condition's great, I can sit there and quickly turn something around.
The main cost for Sharon is time. Seeing the research done gives her hope.
The main cost for Sharon is time. Seeing the research done gives her hope.
Well we've touched on financial costs. I guess there's always time costs of doing it. A lot of, and it's whether people work, whatever people can fit it in to their time. I work in the evenings so I come home and I'll put my children to bed and then I'll turn on the computer and Ill often work really late doing PPI things. So you'd have to be really interested and you'd have to care about what you do otherwise you probably wouldn't do it, but, so I don't see that. I see it as a time cost, but I see it as a good use of my time if it's a more positive way to put it. And then maybe, I'm trying to think if there are emotional costs, perhaps for some people there might be. I haven't felt any personally but there might be for some people.
I was going to ask you that about whether or not the sort of things you look at ever sparked off any sort of emotional reaction?
No because generally I think research is what gives me hope for the future so therefore I think it's really important that research happens. So I actually feel that that committee is something that actually makes me feel more positive about the condition than day-to-day going to hospital appointments and everything else where you aren't aware maybe of what work is going on in the background. So for me I've only seen it as a good thing to be part of.
Jennifer doesn’t mind spending the time on getting involved, but she would like her expenses reimbursed promptly, just to show her work is appreciated.
Jennifer doesn’t mind spending the time on getting involved, but she would like her expenses reimbursed promptly, just to show her work is appreciated.
I've had one difficulty with payment. And, I did a study, I finished doing the study, reading and commenting on it on 23rd January, we're now 29th July, sorry 29th May and I've still not been paid. And I have, I did email the person in question to bring it to his attention and he did say payment would be due in a fortnight, which was about eight weeks ago and I've still not been paid. So up to press I've not done any more studies for that organisation as yet until I get paid from the 29th January, which I'm not happy about this because I was interested in the last study that came through. They wanted me to review but I declined but I've not been paid so left it at that.
And is it the principle of it?
It's the principle. It's not the, you know it not's the money, it's not the money, it's the principle. We're doing this in our own time and it does take our time and it would be nice to be appreciated now, you know.
There is quite a time commitment involved. Travel is always covered but some people may need childcare costs and other expenses such as printing and phone bills.
There is quite a time commitment involved. Travel is always covered but some people may need childcare costs and other expenses such as printing and phone bills.
Margaret feels she’s giving something back for previous research participants who made her care possible, and improving treatment for future patients.
Margaret feels she’s giving something back for previous research participants who made her care possible, and improving treatment for future patients.
And so is there an element of giving back then in your sort of participation in PPI?
Yeah very much giving back, giving back for the treatment that I got and the care that I received, and anything I give in PPI is nothing to what I get back out of being part of it and that's being very honest. But certainly I just see it as being a partner with researchers and helping to improve treatments and quality of life for other patients coming out of this right from the initial bit of what's done in the lab, right through to what it means in changing services and treatment, and my part might be very small and that but I think you bring who you are to it – bring your experience of being a patient and that's unique round that table. Everyone us has been a patient or, or been a carer, and the experience we've had of the impact of cancer and treatment and diagnosis on our lives, has something to say around that table with researchers as partners. I don't become a researcher, I don't become a research doctor or a nurse, I don't become a scientist but I bring something unique to the research and that has been exciting for me.
Dave G would not want to feel like a paid employee. Enjoying the work is all the reward he wants.
Dave G would not want to feel like a paid employee. Enjoying the work is all the reward he wants.
So you're not answerable to anybody?
I'm not answerable to anybody.
That's give you a bit of freedom.
It's, what is it, responsibility without something or other? Responsibility without accountability yeah, but you have to be careful, you can't, you have to be professional about it.
How does it feel when you know that, you know you're at these meetings and everybody else there who isn't a citizen researcher is being paid for the work that they'd doing and you're not? You know the professors and the doctors and so on, does have that any impact on you?
Not in the slightest. What I get out of the studies is much more than payment, it's much more than payment.
And what do you get out of them?
I get a great deal of self-confidence; I get a get a great deal of knowledge; I relate to people; it keeps my brain alive, one of the many things which keeps you living for a long time yeah. It's a relationship with people, relationship with the study and looking at it and thinking about it and reading around it, yeah that's the recompense for me; I mean I'm not bothered about the money.
And did you ever think that you would be doing this in your retirement?
No, no. I think my life has completely opened out since I retired. In fact I think this is about the best part of my life actually.
Margaret doesn’t feel how she is valued depends on whether she is paid. She puts in a lot of hours but she can always say no.
Margaret doesn’t feel how she is valued depends on whether she is paid. She puts in a lot of hours but she can always say no.
But maybe that's a personal thing.
Yeah
And I couldn't really speak for people, that would be dishonest in being able to say this is what they all think, it's personal.
Yeah, no and I think that's a very important point isn't it because value and money are two different things.
They are different.
But they can often be confused.
But yes and I think, I think that is yes, and I probably do think, you know, that of the number of hours that sometimes you put in thinking they're laughing in the Cancer Unit saying, you'd get Securicor if we had to pay you, you know. But I don't feel I'm being misused or abused if you know what I mean because I have the right to say no.
You know the porters do laugh and say, "I'd thought you'd retired". I said, "I have because nobody pays me anymore". But in saying that I do have the right to say, "Well no I'm doing that, you know, I do have other things that I do as well."
It’s nice to get a bit of payment but it would never be Nadeem’s main reason for getting involved.
It’s nice to get a bit of payment but it would never be Nadeem’s main reason for getting involved.
Being paid is important to Francesco. He sees his skills as something valuable to researchers.
Being paid is important to Francesco. He sees his skills as something valuable to researchers.
You know it's not, I know that research staff or whatever they will get paid but then they've got a contract. If you haven't got an honorary contract, don't expect something for nothing. I live by that, but then if I'm kind of like preparing a day's training on equality diversity for the mental health Trust, I know that this half a day is a hundred and twenty; if it's a full day it's £240 for the day. Done that very few times because I'm sure they can't afford to keep doing that all the time but you've got levels of payment. What is important with people's involvement, not only with the payment, although that helps so you're not at least out of pocket, is how you will be able to perform the task, be it voluntary, and what will that enable? When we had that meeting we couldn't actually say what we could offer them because, like I said, we're here today whether or not this, which we will because nobody else put a bid in.
For Carolyn, paying people for involvement shows it’s valued. It’s important to fund it properly to get a more diverse group of people involved.
For Carolyn, paying people for involvement shows it’s valued. It’s important to fund it properly to get a more diverse group of people involved.
My fear is that some of that might be eroded and if people really want more diversity, which everyone's saying they want you're really going to knock that on the head if you don't continue to put resources into it. You know, it makes it back to being a luxury for the retired professional who looking for something interesting, you know, challenging to do. And that's, we have to be more than that and wider than that. A couple of the groups I'm involved with have done great guns recently in bringing in people who aren't, well people who aren't like me, but we need ever so much more of that. We need younger people as well as people who are from ethnically diverse or less well educated, less starting from a different perspective or understanding of what research is. But that doesn't mean that they're not able to contribute; it means they'll have very different things to contribute and we've really got to work to support that kind of contribution and make sure it can happen.
And that does take money I think pretending that it doesn't is just fanciful.
Paying people for their involvement gives them equal value and status. People can donate what they’re paid to charity if they wish.
Paying people for their involvement gives them equal value and status. People can donate what they’re paid to charity if they wish.
Now if the PPI doesn’t want payment, wants to do it out of generosity, considers it part of their moral duty to bring their experience to the table, then they can take that payment and donate it to somebody like the Motor Neurone Disease Association and as taxpayers they can gift aid it. So the charity receives 28p in the pound. So take the payment and if you don’t want to keep it, give it to your favourite charity.
Do you think if there was an element of payment we would get a greater reflection of British society if there was..?
No I think the reverse is true. I think that people that want to do something, will do something, will try and do something. But there are people who don’t necessarily have the wherewithal to sort of traipse around the country.
I go… London, Newcastle, Sheffield, Leeds. I’ve been to Southampton. Universities and hospitals and other things. I need, as an ordinary person, if I’m going to do that, I need help. I’m not in it for the profit, I’m here to try and to something. But money’s helpful. It pays for train tickets. It buys petrol.
So in that way it wouldn’t detract, it’s something that you can…?
No. It would enable. And also it gives, I think it gives the PPI some, some status or credibility. You’re not here under sufferance, you’re not being tolerated. You’re valued. We’ll pay you to be here. That’s how much we want to hear what you’ve got to say. And I think that’s a good message, not only to the PPI but to the people listening to the PPI.
Costs for involvement should always be built in. Working people may not be able to take part otherwise.
Costs for involvement should always be built in. Working people may not be able to take part otherwise.
It is a thorny problem, because I am also aware that I’ve been on other things that I’ve been, I’ve not been paid for, that I’ve just done because I was interested in, and I thought they were worthwhile and useful things, and I don’t think they were less worthwhile because the funding wasn’t available to pay me. But that said, I’ve been on other things where the funding hasn’t been asked for, for participation and then participants are invited saying, “Oh but we haven’t any money.” And that’s not alright, actually. If you’re wanting people to be involved, you need to think about it and plan it. I get quite cross when I see on funding applications that we’ve got public involvement, but it’s Mrs So-and-So and she doesn’t want to be paid. That’s great. If you’ve got somebody who wants to do it for nothing, but what if she gets ill? Does that mean you can’t ask anybody else if they need to be paid? You can’t ask anyone who’s working.
One of the big holes in involvement is working age people. And how are you going to get people who are working age involved if they have to take time off work and they’re not compensated for that? So, for me, when funding bids go in, they should always have an allocation for paying participants, even if those participants then don’t need it and you send it back to the funder. That’s fine.
People who are on benefits may not be able to accept payments for their involvement work or certain types of expenses. Offering to pay people can be counted as an offer of work, even if the person says no to the payment. There were strong feelings that this was unfair and something the government needed to address. Up-to-date guidance on this is available from NHS INVOLVE.
Not offering payment excludes some groups of people. But the government needs to address the problem of it affecting their benefits.
Not offering payment excludes some groups of people. But the government needs to address the problem of it affecting their benefits.
So I think it should be offered. It should be offered at a reasonable level to recompense patient’s input. And the question about whether or not that payment interferes with their benefit payments, so that’s another issue that’s important and I wish that the government would sensibly address that. Because it, the, there is some talk that anybody that accepts payment for involvement in, in, public issues of this kind, like cancer research, but other, other types of involvement, would automatically lose entitlement to benefits. That’s, that’s blatantly and obviously wrong. I wish the government would address that sensibly, to make sure that the hard to reach groups have a voice.
Mary feels paying people for involvement should always be included in grants. She does not see why she should not be paid just because people on benefits cannot be paid.
Mary feels paying people for involvement should always be included in grants. She does not see why she should not be paid just because people on benefits cannot be paid.
Almost everything, but occasionally I get trapped, if you like, and I think I'm going to get paid and I'm not because I haven't, because I'm so used to being paid it's just that now you have to keep – it went through a phase when people automatically paid you, would say, "And you'll obviously want money for your time and this is what we can afford" and whatever. But the , the money for the time – right, the clock is now turning back the other way because of the recession and the changes in the NHS, and lots of people are coming on who don't automatically think it's right that people should be valued for their time. Or rather, they can be valued by their time if they’re paid travel expenses, if you're lucky. And so I mean, for example, I've just had a recent case of somebody who wanted me to, who invited me to go to an all-day meeting in London and I could see no, nothing about costs or fees or anything. So I wrote back and said, "Well I would expect to be paid for my time and my travel costs". And this woman wrote back and said it was a government, a grant from the government department that they were using which was only for venue and lunch, OK? But as they wanted me to be there they would find some money to pay my travel, which instantly you think, 'Well, why didn't they ask the government for the grant, for the fees, and the costs?' They just haven't got it and this is about mental health apps, as in mental health applications, which I mean, it would be quite interesting if I was paid to be there but it's not interesting enough if I'm not.
And how do you feel about that, that sometimes people don't think that you should be paid?
I think it's disgraceful. It's my one mantra because it was so important to me to have got that principle embedded into, and it is embedded in the National Institute for Health Research, you know. There are guides to, how to pay things, and it's on all the grant proposals - it says ‘how you are going to pay people?’ Not as strongly as it should. I mean, people misinterpret that, but at least it's there so they can think about the costs of involvement and what, that cost is more than you know. Because the thing is – I get really cross about this – why should I volunteer my time when everybody else around the table isn't volunteering their time? And if they're asked to volunteer their time, i.e. take a day's holiday or not have any pay for that day, would they want to do it? No, they wouldn't, and why am I any different, you know? And I have done lots of voluntary work – I was Chair of this European network for years which was voluntary, it was not paid. So you know I need to live – how am I going to live? I'm not on benefits so I'm not costing the welfare system anything; a lot of my friends are on benefits, are having a very miserable time because they're being forced into work.
I'm, I am in work but what I'm not getting actually anymore from the mental health system locally, is support to keep me well in work, support to keep me doing what I'm doing now. And it's very, it's incredibly frustrating. And also people themselves, service users, you know, they say, "Well we don't want to work because of our benefits, you know, we don't want to be paid because it'll affect our benefits." And I say, "That's fine, if you want to volunteer, you volunteer but don't say that I can't have any rate for my time."
Alan has changed his mind. He used to think payment would attract people ‘for the wrong reasons’ but now thinks it’s essential for some.
Alan has changed his mind. He used to think payment would attract people ‘for the wrong reasons’ but now thinks it’s essential for some.
Richard feels it’s right to be paid for involvement but it’s not enough to make a living. He doesn’t think people should do it for the money
Richard feels it’s right to be paid for involvement but it’s not enough to make a living. He doesn’t think people should do it for the money
You could, in theory, do that now. Many people would argue that somebody in my position is getting pretty close to it. I know how little money I actually make out of it, so I know I'm not. But, certainly it's there in terms of the time allocation. And so if I were being paid all the time, at a hundred and fifty pounds a day, or whatever, you could make a living out of it. But the reality is that you're often only paid fifty quid for a day and that you actually have to do a day before in terms of reading a preparation, and a day afterwards in terms of follow-up on emails, and so on. That happens. So I don't think people do it for the money. I think there is the potential there to do it for the money and I would worry if that were to happen because I think that creates a whole different relationship. At the moment, people do PPI because they are interested in making research better, in adding value to what researchers are doing, and above all else, making sure that the answers to the research question are going to benefit patients. That's what drives every single person I've ever met in PPI. The moment we start getting paid a living wage for it, let alone a decent salary, that will change, and I think that will be a great shame.
Derek puts many hours into involvement, often unpaid. But if people want him to take part in a demanding committee as an equal he expects to get an honorarium* or to be paid for it as work.
Derek puts many hours into involvement, often unpaid. But if people want him to take part in a demanding committee as an equal he expects to get an honorarium* or to be paid for it as work.
If it then starts to be, they're asking me to look through our list of twenty trial protocols, or they're saying would I give up a day where I, or a half day where I'm sitting on a panel where everybody else is being paid and everybody else is a professional in his trade, but they want me to be an equal at the table, then I think we're moving in to somewhere where honoraria payments in line with INVOLVE’s advice and guidance, is absolutely sound and right. And that, and some like RDSs, the Research Design Services, have little pockets of money where they give it and then get it back if the researchers thinks... So that sort of credit union is a great way to do that. If the researchers are saying, "Actually I want you to be on the research as a partner or as a, one of the named applicants and we want you to be, to join this trial all the way through and help get us get a focus group". That's actually moving closer to work, and at which place then I go into more of saying, "Well actually that's going to take up significant amounts of my time". And because it's work I'd rather move into a payment process so that I then declare that as I would with the honoraria, but actually go into a receipt mode and an invoice, because actually I do make a living from some of this.
* An honorarium is a one-off payment made for voluntary services, which you can be taxed on.
* An honorarium is a one-off payment made for voluntary services, which you can be taxed on.
See also:
‘Representing a range of views and experiences: diversity’
‘Representing a range of views and experiences: being representative’
‘Difficulties and barriers to involvement’
‘Factors which make involvement easier’
Last reviewed July 2017.
Last updated March 2016.
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