Anton - Interview 13

Age at interview: 64

Age at diagnosis: 45

Brief Outline: Anton, 64, is an Asian man who came from Sri Lanka to the UK in 1962. He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder aged 45 and was given various medicines but none worked. Now he is not receiving any treatment' he was told by doctors they had "given up" on him.

Background: Auditor, single. Ethnic background/nationality: Sri Lankan.

More about me...

Anton, a 64 year old single Sri Lankan man, came to the UK aged 15. He lives with and cares for his mother, who has dementia. One day, in his mid 40s, he woke up with what he thought was 'flu' he found it difficult to cope at work, to dress, wash, and do housework. This was unusual for Anton who had always been healthy and rarely visited the doctor. The GP told him it was probably a virus. Eventually the doctor diagnosed depression and gave him some tablets (Mianserine) but Anton was afraid he might get hooked on them. A clergyman friend advised Anton not to take the medication, but to “try and fight it” - Anton says this was bad advice. Anton says he didn't really believe he had depression, he thought it was a virus. 

After seven years of a pattern of going “through hell” for three months, then having manic phases of “dashing around”, Anton found it more and more difficult to fight. His GP was not very friendly or helpful so he went to see his mum's GP who prescribed Prozac and Endronax. They didn't work so she referred him to a psychiatrist. Anton saw many different psychiatrists and they were all puzzled and their diagnoses varied. When medication didn't work, they suggested talking therapy. Anton doubted it would help and it didn't. Eventually Anton was told, “We've given up” and was discharged by the psychiatrist. 

Anton lives in hope that someone will introduce a medicine that will work for him. Anton has also tried taking Omega 3 fish oil, acupuncture, homeopathy, Chinese medicine, and Qi Gong, but they were all unsuccessful. He wanted to try electro convulsive therapy (ECT) but it was refused because of his coronary heart disease. 

Anton thinks his depression may be related to his perfectionist attitude and get up and go nature. He read somewhere that his brain is like an electrical circuit which he has overloaded and blown the fuse. At his lowest point, Anton tried to commit suicide twice because he felt he had nothing to live for after he had to sell his house and take casual part-time work. He lied to the psychiatrist about his feelings because he didn't want to be sectioned. 

Anton says his family don't understand his illness because physically he looks OK. People tell him, “Pull yourself together”. He says people have a common notion of depression, and many people think they've been depressed, although they haven't. He thinks there should be more education for the family. He says that something good has come out of his illness, he knows how to deal with human relations' Anton says he now asks people with depression, “Is there something I can do for you?” rather than lecturing them.

When Anton was planning his third suicide attempt, he read a story in a Christian magazine that he thought was the Lord telling him he still has a purpose in life. Since then, Anton does voluntary work: he's on the Commission for Involvement of a Public Patient Forum and the Faculty of Old Age Psychiatry at the Royal College of Psychiatry and he's a resident director of the local Housing Association.

Anton had to give up his home and a job he loved and take part time work.

Anyway, so then in the last sort of three, four years, I found illness was getting worse. I couldn't cope. Then I couldn't even hold onto to my job. So, then of course in the meantime I changed jobs. Right. And then I've well my boss was quite a decent guy. We became very good friends. I said, “Look, I have got this sort…” I didn't want to say a depression. I said virus and everything and various other things. 

So eventually I couldn't hold my job and the company had financial problems and the job went. Then I tried to get other jobs, which I got job offers, then I did the job then three months time the depression came. I couldn't tell them it was depression. I said, “Oh my Mum is ill. So I'm leaving.” Like that I went through a sort of series of things.

So then I decided, look I can't hold down a full time job, let me do a part time, casual work. Then I was able to get casual work, which is not very satisfactory. Like they always give one of their permanent staff a lot more to do. Money wasn't very good. Right and you get treated badly. Well, part its, excuse my expression, when you are at the bottom you take a lot of shit. [Laughs] Right, but beggars can't be choosers. Right so I doing casual work and whenever the ruddy depression comes I will tell somebody this, “Oh I've got a virus and my Mum ill is. She's dementia. So I have got to go.” And they were quite understanding with the reason I left. And then started again I would ring these companies up, and say anything going?

So that is how I have been surviving right. So I can't do a permanent job. A secure job. All what I can do is casual job to survive right. But even these casual jobs, I can't tell the prospective employers that I've got depression, right. No one will touch me. Right okay they have what you call personal policies, all these lovely letters, but if they come to know, that is it. And also these days many apply for a job, so many people apply, it's the last thing they want, somebody with a problem. You see, so that's how I have been surviving, plus looking after my Mum and everything. That gives me a bit of a purpose, you know. So there we are. 

So I am still living in the hope that somebody some day will come along with illness, some sort of medicine and I may get over it. And I will bounce back. Although I am 63 plus, I want to work. I want to work until I drop dead because I enjoy my job. You see. That sort of a business. So that is the how the state affair.

So anyway I couldn't pay my mortgage right, because of various things, so I had to contact the building society, get rid of the house. I always lived within my means so I didn't have any financial problems. I sold the house. Fortunately my Mum was living in the local authority housing basis, then I came down here, and told them, “Look, I'm looking after my Mum. This is my condition. Where do I stand?” Then well it was sort of a grey area. I took a lot of advice from legal people and all these things. So I was living with uncertainty that if something happened to my Mum I would be on the road, because they, they will tell me you are a single guy, go, you know, that's it, go and find a room. 

Then I went and told my psychiatrist. He said to me, “No I won't let that happen,” because the psychiatrist, although he didn't give me any medicine the consultant we became great friends, you know. And he said, “Oh I won't let that happen. Under the Mental Health Act I'll make sure that you are housed.” But at the same time, the Mental Health Support Group I should be belong to, I used to hear horror stories whe

Anton was given conflicting opinions about treatment and when his doctor suggested he look for...

Then they told me electric shock treatment. Previously I asked all the psychiatrists and no one wanted to give it to me. They said you're not as bad as you think and we don't agree with you. So when I went to [psychiatric hospital] they said, 'Well if you are really suffering like that this, you can try it.' 

Then I belong to a research group in Institute of Psychiatry called CRAG, Consumer Research something, a group, and then I met some members and some said to me, 'Oh yes, I have taken it. It was a quick cure. Or quick relief. I recommend it.' Then another lady sort of said, 'No, no, no, it caused me memory loss. I went through hell and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.' So that's the sort of difference of opinion. 

So when I asked this Professor, they said to me, 'Look on the net and make your mind up.' I wish somebody would tell me, 'Look go and do it.'

Anton says it would help if psychiatrists had personal experience of mental health problems...

The other thing we always ask everybody is whether they have any messages for health or other professionals?

Well this is what I told one of the consultants. Of course, sometimes I tell them because I feel so bad these days. I don't mind telling them. I told one of the consultants, 'Well when you become the clinical director and you want to recruit psychiatrists for God sake recruit psychiatrists to deal with depression who has suffered depression, then they will understand. Otherwise it will be all theory, they say take this tablet and go away. It will take one month or three weeks. And then if it doesn't come back for another tablet.' This depression is an invisible illness. It can be only understood by people who suffer, unlike any other illness, so it is very important. I bumped into a few medics who suffer from depression. Oh I love sitting down and yapping and for hours and hours, because you feel you are talking to someone who understands, a common cause. But other people.  Waste of time, you are just wasting your breath. So this is one thing they have got to help the services to deal with. Unlike physical illness, this is it, and plus they've got to sit down. Now some people, if the people aren't articulate they can sit down and really go to town and ask them. Not just five or ten minutes or something, really go to town and ask them. Because the diagnosis depends on the information they give. Nothing what they see. Now if you go with any other medical' a stethoscope, they could take your blood sample, and then may be it is it. But not depression though. So if that sort of a thing was done, then people wouldn't commit suicide and people will feel better. Otherwise the same old thing, you know.

And what kind of difference do you think it would make, if say for example, your psychiatrist has his or her own experience of depression. How would that help? 

Oh they would understand the hell we go through. No one can sanitise for your pain, the hell, the mental pain you go through, you can't describe it. When I go through, 'Oh my head'' [gestures at head] no one can describe it. You can take paracetamol, Nurofen, nothing is going to happen. You can't describe it. Then if they know all the hell they go through, then they would take it seriously, and then they will say, oh let's put more resources, let's see how we can do something about it.

Anton tried talking therapy even though he didn't want to and thought it would be a waste of time...

Then I went to see the psychiatrist. They tried different, different medications. None of them worked. Then they said to me, 'Oh come along for talking therapy.' I told them, 'Hold on. What can I talk? If I had a problem I could say so.' Then they said, 'Oh well if you don't, then you are not cooperating with us. Then we will drop you.' So then I said, 'Oh well, you're only going to waste your time, but I thought I would mention this to you.' Then I went through the ruddy talking therapy. I knew nothing is going to happen. But still I maintained a positive attitude. After ten weeks of talking therapy, nothing happened'

Ah well talking therapy, well, you may be aware, there are two types of depression. One is the reactive depression and the other is indigenous depression. Now, the react' not to talk down to you, but if you didn't know, the reactive depression, say if you lose your job, if your loved one died, then you're worried thinking about it and all these things. Then you need somebody to talk to you, to come to terms with it. But the indigenous which the brain stops producing serotonin, well, whatever talk you do, it's not going to work, you see. So therefore, I told my psychiatrist talking therapy doesn't work, but then I went through it, and that was it what could they say. They said, 'You have got a problem. Look at things positively.' Now I am a positive person. You see I left school with O-levels and I became a group audit manager for a group of companies. Right. And I've found many frauds, commended by Old Bailey judges, and even at this stage I am saying this. I don't need some zombie to tell me, 'Be positive.' You know what I mean'?

But of course you can go to some of these professional listeners, by they are like a plastic thing, they smile and listen. And also another thing though, when you go for counselling, the counselling philosophy is that they mustn't give advice. They must help you to make your mind up. Right but when you are really suffering, you want somebody to tell you what to do.

Anton takes no medication - he felt the doctors gave up on him.

So nothing came out of them, and then one of the psychiatrists sort of said to me. 'Look, well you don't seem to respond to medicine. So therefore we can't do much about it. And therefore, as far as we're concerned we have given up. You will just have to grin and bear it.' 

Now me being me, I never take no for an answer. My being an auditor when the company has problems, well I want to solve it and come up with something. And if I didn't I would go and ask somebody. So, so I said, 'I want to see some other consultants'. 

So went and saw another, one of their consultants, and the consultant first he treated me nicely. He didn't prescribe any medicine. I am a member of the Depression Alliance and Manic Depression Fellowship. I get their monthly magazine, and various information. 

When some new treatment came up. I used to go and say, 'Doctor, there is a new thing. Well let's try this.' Then he said to me, 'Well look, we have discussed all these things before. Medicines don't work for you.' And then he said, 'Oh I know about all that. You know, I'm a consultant. You know, you're just wasting our time. And that is our business.'

You said that they had given up on you.

Oh they've given up even when I go and show the latest research or pill, or development, they say, 'Oh we have discussed all that.' Well then they quote statistics. There are 20% of the depressed, people suffering from depression, medication doesn't work. Then I said, 'Well I could, this may work, one in a million chance.' But they just wouldn't.

How does that make you feel?

Oh I feel very bad, though. Because they, I am not asking them for something, for, I am suffering, when you're suffering, even if they tell me, gulp that stone which I will do it. You know, when you're suffering, somebody is suffering, why don't they do it? All they do is write another prescription and say, 'How are you getting on, you know.' 

Anton wanted to try ECT although he was afraid, because nothing else worked and he thought it was...

At [psychiatric hospital] I met a Professor of Psychiatry and another doctor. And then I was telling my life story like this. Then they told me electric shock treatment. Previously I asked all the psychiatrists and no one wanted to give it to me. They said you're not as bad as you think and we don't agree with you. So when I went to [psychiatric hospital] they said, 'Well if you are really suffering like that this, you can try it.' 

Then I belong to a research group in Institute of Psychiatry called CRAG, Consumer Research something, a group, and then I met some members and some said to me, 'Oh yes, I have taken it. It was a quick cure. Or quick relief. I recommend it.' Then another lady sort of said, 'No, no, no, it caused me memory loss. I went through hell and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.' So that's the sort of difference of opinion. 

So when I asked this Professor, they said to me, 'Look on the net and make your mind up.' I wish somebody would tell me, 'Look go and do it.' So then I thought to myself. Inside I'm still suicidal, I am going through hell. We have tried everything, come what may, even if my brain fries I'll go and do it. So then, when was it, about three months ago, when the depression came in, I told my GP, and she contacted [psychiatric hospital], and [psychiatric hospital] backed down, and [psychiatric hospital] said, 'No, no, no, unless the person is really bad,' but I should have taken the offer then. But then when they first told me I was scared as well.

He says people don't understand depression and he didn't get the support he needed from family,...

Ah yes. It's not just the family. You see when I got this illness I couldn't fend for myself, and then obviously it turned my siblings, and didn't understand however much I may tell them, and sometimes get annoyed, some days they would say, 'Well how do you feel?' You know, I would tell them. 

Then as I take an active part in the church, I went to one of the higher ups in the church, I said, 'Look my situation is very precarious. Although I'm not that old, can you give me a bed in the home for the aged? Then when I've got the depression I can lie there, I'll get a plate of food, then when I'm back to normal I could help you in the accounts.' Even the church turned me down. 'Sorry can't help you.' So when I thought I couldn't fend for myself, my family couldn't help, even when I had some good friends, I thought that they might lend a hand, you know, and then the church said they can't and I thought, 'Look what is this?' So that is the thing which prompted me to do suicide. Commit suicide. Now if somebody would have a lent a hand, a lot of caring then I may not have. But I think this is why a lot of people even ask for euthanasia, because they feel there's nobody, they might as well go. Yes.

So what do you think, your family's understanding of your depression is?

Well they said, I must pull myself together. Yes, that is it, you know, that's all, that's all, pull yourself together. You know, they all had depression it seems, you know, this is it, you know, and they always tell me, 'Oh I had depression, this, that and the other.' You see. However much I may tell them, even I, once we had a meeting at one of the health centres and I took them all, and explained to them, even the psychiatrist explained to them, but it didn't go through their head. 

Why do you think that is?

Well I think people have got this sort of notion isn't it. I think in future if someone was diagnosed with a depression you see, they must say [Anton's] disease. Then it will give a proper name. And they'll say, 'Oh no you haven't got depression you have got [Anton's] disease,' and then people will know what it is. Yes. Well I tell you this, you go and speak to people, you just go and tell your friends, 'Look I am depressed a bit.' You will see. You'll be amazed. And the advice you will get, and you will find so many of them have had.

Anton goes to several support groups - even if he doesn't feel like it - and finds them helpful...

Oh yes, I have go to different' because sometimes, when you are depressed you want to be with a group of people who understand, so they have support groups, they have got one in Croydon, they have got in North London. So when you are down, you think like I will drag myself, how will I drag myself, oh let me got to the Islington support group today. Tomorrow they'll have a group in the City of London. Thursday there will be a group in Ealing. So like that you sort of do the circuit. Sometimes you say ah I just couldn't be bothered, sit down.

And how does it help when you go?

Well when you are with a group of people you can talk. And while you are there for one or two hours your mind is off' at least you know people understand you. And then what happens in the support groups is that you go round telling your little story about three or five minutes, you know, depending on the number of people, three minutes if there is a lot, five minutes if there are not many. So then when you go through, somebody will say, 'Oh well I had the same thing, but I did this.' 'This felt'' And then you know it's coming from somebody who had the problem and not from somebody saying, 'Go and have a meal.' 'Go on a walk.' Like one of my neighbours, a few weeks ago he said, 'Oh you must have a walk.' 'Oh,' I said, 'Oh thanks Mr [name removed], telling me this, I never thought about it, I will definitely go and have a walk.' Then the next day when he came in, 'Oh I had a one mile walk. It didn't do anything. Any other bright ideas?' And he got the message [Laughs].

Do you feel it is more worthwhile trying things out, that if someone has had an experience of depression and they, they suggest something to you, do you feel a bit more like, well at least that might work?

Oh yes

Because it worked for them?

Yes. Now like I belong to an organisation, an expert patient group, [EPP]. Now the problem with the expert patient group. Obviously I try my very best, not to, what do you call, be all the time with the sick people, because you're going to get into a rut and that can take over. But anyway this girl [name removed] told me, 'So come to the expert patient group.' And they sent me on a course. Then I said, 'Do I want to go to the group and drown my sorrows and find comfort in what other people have?' She said, 'Ah come along.' 

So I went this six weeks course, half a day for the every week, and then I found, not only I was with a group of people who were ill, with different types of illnesses, heart, diabetes, mental illness, everything. The person who was lecturing or training he's also an ill person. And then what we do is, he will sometimes say things, and then somebody says, 'Oh I had this problem,' they'll put on the' 'What did you do?' Then, 'I don't know I was really going through hell.' And then somebody else said, 'Oh no, no, no, do this, this helped.' 

Now for example there was a girl called [name removed] in one of the groups, and she said, 'I don't know, my filing, I've got a pile of things to file, this, that and the other, in a in a mess and everything. And that sort of a business.' So then I said to her, then I said to her, '[name removed], what you do is, ideally, when you, when you get a letter you want to reply, what you do is you make a, a, a, what do you call, note of that letter, like heading of the letter. And if you've got a file, file it. So you got on one page you have got all the notes and the heading of the letter, so when you feel better, you know where to look for the file and you can reply. But if you put it in one big bundle then suddenly you are lo

Anton felt as if God had put a curse on him and wondered if he had done something wrong to...

I am a very religious and spiritual and everything. When the depression came in, it made my life hell. I prayed nothing happened. The, the church which I used to go and attend and preach in [town], they prayed, nothing happened. I found as the hand of God was against me, that he had decided to destroy me, because before I had the depression whatever I touched turned into gold. As if God is my next door neighbour' oh pray about it, and this used to happen, then suddenly the depression, everything collapsed, as if the hand of God was against me. I lost my faith in a way. That's why I decided to commit suicide. And then I regained it when I survived.

So then only I thought as if God had put a curse on me, that means nothing is going to happen. I'm one of those people I don't cry over spilt milk, I just, if something happen I pick up the pieces and start again. But in this case the more I tried to fight it, the more I had to pick up, it got worse. I was thinking like the Hindus, what karma have I done in my past birth to deserve this, then I see of course you can't help it, like in the Psalms, King David used to say, 'Well sometimes you get angry.' And he used to get angry with God. And I said, 'What is this? Is this the reward I get? For, you know, leading a Christian life.' And I used to think have I done anything dirty? Anything nasty to people to deserve this? Then I see the person who had been so nasty, they are prospering. They are okay. You know, in my life, in my work, I never made anyone redundant. I saved people's jobs. And even when people did the dirty on me, I never took revenge. I said, 'Oh forget it, you know, that's past.' That sort of a business. So then I thought to myself, 'What's happened?' You know I used to think like Job, if God were to tell me why is this happening, I could put right. Then I thought to hell with it, let me go and commit suicide. If I will meet you, I will tell you. What do you expect me to do? And there was a time when somebody committed suicide at the Christian church, I won't go to funeral, because obviously that's not on. Now I can understand. I can sit down and write an order of service for a person who committed suicide. I could counsel their parents, or their brother and sisters. 

You mentioned karma. Is karma something that you believe in?

Well Hindus believe in karma. That means whatever if you have done bad things in a previous birth you will repay this and all these things, and once when I was at a meeting, I was telling this woman, who was next to me 'I don't know I've got this illness, but I'm looking after my Mum.' And you know what she told me. She told me in a previous birth, she wasn't your Mum, you have murdered her. So you have reincarnated this birth to look after her. Then I said, 'How do you know?' She said, 'Oh am a medium.' Of course I wouldn't to go and ask and consult a medium. But just came off chance conversation. Now it is so tempting to believe these things, but as a Christian I don't. So but then, as I say, I'm from Sri Lanka, Indian background. So it's part of your culture. Hinduism and Buddhism are part of your culture. Although you may be Christian, you tend to do things.

Anton describes his technique for dealing with work and post when he's depressed.

So anyway still I was suffering. And then this state of affairs carried on. At work when the office post comes in, I open the mail, and anything which my staff can do, I delegate it. Anything complicated I put in a filing cabinet and lock it up. Hoping when I feel better, I can deal with it'

And then my work came to standstill. I used to put them in a filing cabinet and then when I got better I used to do it. The reason I was able to survive, because my superiors were quite pleased with me. They never checked on me.

Anton tried various CAMs because he was desperate. He said they were only "lightening my wallet"...

Yes. As I was desperate, I had to hold on to my job. Money was no object, what is the point, good health is wealth. So I decided to go on the alternative therapy route. I tried acupuncture, homeopathy, herbal, you name it, Chinese medicine, Qi Gong, and you name it. My being an accountant, I suddenly got a bit wise, because what I found was these people were lightening my wallet. You know, they were making exorbitant claims but nothing was happening. I didn't even notice any difference, after the few sessions. So then I used to go along to one of these guys and say, say if I decide to go to a herbalist or something. 'Look I've got this illness, now how many sessions, what's your fee?  And after so many,' said, 'Would I get well?' Then, then of course  then they were a bit cautious, right, so when I spoke such to them, then they would caution and then one an acupuncturist guy, he said, 'Oh three months you have got to go one of my' fifty quid a time.'  Then I said, 'In three months time it leaves.' And so I found a lot of these alternative people make exorbitant claims, they lighten your wallet, and that's it. I have no faith in them.

Anton describes what is helpful about prayer and meditation, especially when depressed.

Oh yes, praying helps in a sense, that it's not bottling things up, right, you just pray, and God is not going to argue and contradict you. And you can pray any time, you give up your load like problems aired is problem shared and the famous hymn, 'What a friend we have in Jesus, all our grief's and sins to bear'. But what would help really is praying and meditating, if you pray, and if you meditate on some scripture verses. He cares for you. You know. He knows your' he has great plans for you. So like that. 'Yea though I walk through the Valley of Shadow of Death, I will be with you.' So a person can pray and get a Bible verse and meditate, that will be a great help. Meditation's a great help. 

Do you use meditation?

I do meditate because being an Asian, that's the culture. It naturally come. So I meditate.

What kind of, so do you use verse or '?

A Christian meditation, you know. Like for example, now I do some preaching in the church to, I used to, but now with all this gone. So when I used to do preaching, what I used to do is that the previous night before I go to bed, I read a passage, the scriptures. And the next morning, when I am driving to Newcastle-on-Tyne, right five hour drive I will be meditating and thinking about it, so thoughts will come in, and then when I get off at Newcastle, I'll just note the, jot the points down. On the, my return I will refine it. Sermon's done. 

Does the meditation help when you are feeling depressed?

Oh yes, it helps. At least it takes you mind off. This is the thing with meditation. Even when you are not depressed, if you've got bad thoughts. Or if you have got some sort of problem and you are worried about it. When you meditate, you can switch off, you think about something pleasant or something like that and then that will lessen the pain, and if you go on, then suddenly you forget, why, why was I, why was I worried about things. So I always recommend people to sit down and meditate and you can meditate anywhere, any time, any situation. You don't need somebody else to hold your hand.

Anton wanted to go to hospital until he discovered what it was like inside.

So have you ever been in hospital. Had to go into hospital for your'?

The only time is when I took the first overdose, they took me and they kept there.

But was that just a regular hospital or was it a mental health hospital?

No. It, it was a mental health hospital.

Okay

Yes, yes.

And what was that like for you?

Oh a horrible place. Previously I've asked the psychiatrist when I used to feel bad like this, can't fend for myself, 'Oh please doctor, why don't you stick me in the hospital? Then at least I will get a plate of food, and rest.' He said, 'No, no, Anton, they're horrible places. You wouldn't fit in there.' I didn't believe it, but when I ended up for two days. Oh, oh, such horrible places. Firstly, no one told me where the toilet is, where the tea machine is. Where this, that and the other. Then there are other patients who want to pick a fight with you The staff. I think they have lost all humanity. They talked to you in a regimented way. That's the thing. And then you are in a locked ward. And then at certain times you get your food. Say at 5 you will get a dinner and you will get a cup of tea, then you can't go and have another cup, you will wait until the next morning. And then trying to phone up the outside world, unless you have got a mobile, Plus, the place was dirty, filthy, You are there, there's no library to read. They had one television. Even that you don't have use the use of the knobs. They'll put it on, if you like it, you like it, that sort of a business, and then what do you do the whole day? You're like a zombie there. There's nothing to do. So that was driving me mad. So then I wasn't keen, I came back. Otherwise I would have got sectioned, if you got sectioned, next time when you feel ill, then they will come and take you.