Ramanbhai - Interview 27

Age at interview: 62

Brief Outline:

Ramanbhai is a full time carer for his wife who suffers from depression. It took many years before she diagnosed, and she has other health issues as well.

Background:

Ramanbhai was a shop floor worker before retiring two years ago to care for his wife. They have a grown up daughter. He became a carer at age 60. Ethnic background: Indian.

More about me...

Ramanbhai is in his early 60s and he lives with his wife Hansaben in the East Midlands. Ramanbhai's wife suffers from mental health problems, and he has been caring for her full time for the last two years.

Ramanbhai came from India with, as he says, only 50 pence in his pocket, in the late 1960. He borrowed £25 to get married, and both he and his wife worked hard to make a new life for themselves. They had a baby daughter but decided not to have more children so that they would be able to give her a good life and education.

After working hard for many years, Hansaben's health begun to suffer. She complained about pains in her head and chest. Eventually she was diagnosed with thyroid problems, a blood disorder and food allergies.

In the late 1990, however, Ramanbhai noticed that Hansaben was getting a little confused. She would take the wrong way home from the local bus stop, or forget to add ingredients when cooking. There were a lot of these incidents and this lead to tension at home. At this stage Ramanbhai didn't know that her anger was due to her mental health problems, and sometimes their arguments became quite loud. At one occasion the neighbours had called the police.

Once they were told by the doctors that Hansaben had depression, it was easier for Ramanbhai to attribute her behaviour to this. He has learnt that the best way to handle her is to be gentle and calm. If tension arises he sometimes goes for a 5-10 minute walk to allow the situation to calm down. He says he doesn't think many others would have persevered as he did over the years. Having done so, however, means he has now learnt to understand her and they are able to live nicely together.

About two years ago the doctors advised Ramanbhai that his wife needed 24 hour care and that he should consider retiring to look after her full time, which he did. She was very ill at that time and had even threatened to kill herself. Now Ramanbhai is with his wife all the time. He says that this is part of the commitment of marriage; were he to leave he would destroy the lives of his wife and his daughter, and for what?

Ramanbhai has not told anyone about his wife's mental health problems. Only their daughter knows about Hansaben's depression. He feels that people in the community wouldn't understand and that they would look down on them and gossip about them, and he doesn't want that to happen to his wife or to himself. He therefore makes sure she is looked after, and he makes sure he is nearby in social situations to help her out. He accompanies her to support centres, exercise classes and the Temple.

Ramanbhai doesn't seek support from others of from services to help him care. He says he is a strong person and is able to cope. However, if the situation continues for another 3 or 4 years, he may at that stage seek some support. On the odd occasion that he goes with his son-in-law to the pub, his daughter or sister-in-law will sit with his wife for an hour or two. Apart from that he prefers to be with his wife and make sure she is happy.

Ramanbhai relies on his inner strength and doesn't talk to others.

So if there are problems, when they occur, how do you get solutions to them?

In terms of solutions I have to help her understand.

For yourself? How do you do it for yourself?

For myself, it does feel, if I say anything with my heart that's it. After that what ever happens. Its in my luck (naseeb).

Who do you talk to with your heart? Yourself or someone else?

Myself, I do not talk to anyone else. Myself. I talk to myself and listen to myself. If I say it to someone else. You know what it's like in our community that word gets out wrong?

So you would not be able to talk about it?

No, not able to even if I wanted to because in every family, people think differently. Families don't have the same thinking. Your thinking will be different to mine. Her sister, father or mother or anyone else within it, their thinking will be different. It's not the same, you can talk to one and then another one. What is the benefit of it, nothing is there? Benefit of talking? Because I can handle it so why not? 'In myself I have the strength to keep going.

Where has that strength come from?

It has to be taken. The strength comes from my mind- I am speaking according to my mind- I am saying- my thinking is- that in our life if we cannot do something good for someone- why do something bad? To make my life good why should I spoil someone else's life by bringing unhappiness into it? As a human being we have no right to do that. If you have got married, then it's a part of your family. Then you have to have the strength of character -any circumstances you have to bear (address the challenges) it. If you can do this- it is better. That's it.

Ramanbhai comes along to his wife's consultations and they meet the psychiatrist together after...

When you go to the doctor or other services, do you go with her or does she go alone. 

Together, together. Together means, first, she goes in and then I am called in. They will take her interview and then take mine. Afterwards the doctor will find out what is really happening here and what the truth is. I don't know what the doctor asks my wife. When she asks me she will ask in front of my wife. When she sees that things were the same and that these things are true. We want to tell the truth, what is the point of telling lies? What is happening to my wife she talks about honestly to the doctor.

Is it the GP?

No, mental health doctor. Yes. Right now the doctor has changed, its one of ours (Asian). We go together. What they are saying is so far, keep her occupied little by little and supervise her, stay with her and show her as you go along. That's it. That is the way I am doing.

How do you feel the doctor involves you? Is he letting you taking part?

In terms of involvement, I feel, we should know what is going on in our home, first thing, because I live in the house. If the wife knows and I do not know, then that is not right. I feel I should go and find out and know what needs correcting. What I should be looking to improving. This should be improved because I am sitting at home anyway. If there is something that will improve as a result of me going there, there is no reason not to.

Ramambhai feels that leaving his wife with others would have a negative effect on her so he...

They came and said if you want to go to the pub or with a friend. But, one thing I raised in my mind. If I left her alone in the home and went to drink beer to enjoy myself for four hours, right? The one psychological effect will happen to a person, look I will explain' if you get someone else to look after your wife, she doesn't like it. She will think, 'My husband is out having a good time and someone else is looking after me in the home'. She is going to realise and sense that. Right? If I do this, it will have more an effect on her. All these years when we have gone on holiday I have never gone alone. Even when I go to the pub for a drink I go with my son-in-law. Before I used to go with my friend when I was working, used to drink for an hour then left. Right now if I want to go every couple of months, my son-in-law comes and my daughter is in the house, so it's ok. However, if I call someone to help from carer support then instead of improving she will worsen. If I am capable of doing this, then going outside or a beer is not more important than my wife. I will give an example. Today, if your husband went out to have a good time and you are well then it is going to affect your mind and look- why is this happening? You are going to say, 'I am sitting at home and he is out having a good time'. Then the next day, you will make him sit in the house and you will go out to have a good time. This will not feel fine to you either. So I sat and thought about it with a long term perspective. I said this is not right, I am at home, there is no need to go out. It does not make any difference.

He believes that while you may get support from religion, it is really your inner strength that...

You have had the strength to cope with this and able to do the work that is required of you, is it from religion or yourself? From what you have said it seems to come from yourself?

It has come from myself.

Often, people say it has come from religion?

You can get it from religion if someone believes, you can get it from there as well. But look, what I have inside, is that if you are going to do good, then do it, but do not do bad. That is my principle. With that I carry on. If you cannot do it, then move out of the way. If you do not get on with someone, cross over the road but do not do bad things. It's as simple as that. Why do bad things? You are a human being and god has given you life, no need to. You get two chapattis [idiom meaning be satisfied with you have got] why lie, do we want to become millionaire? What is the necessity of all that in life?]

What you have told me, your story, it's a type of philosophy, has it come from your culture or from your own family? Or elsewhere?

No, not from culture, but I often watch some documentaries, you know, Gujarati ones that come. Or those religious talks that come such as Morari Bapu [Indian Guru] or the one in Australia, the one who died recently. Her teachings comes on at 5 o'clock. When you listen to it, in reality, you really can get something from it, if you look at it from your heart in the right way and you use it for good effect, get happiness and peace. You can learn a lot from it. If you can learn from it and apply it to your life. We do not want to become a very 'learned' person, but from our perspective, it's about how we can get peace and happiness, that's what we should look for. It's not about preaching to other people but preaching to ourselves. It's about applying it for ourselves. So why not?

Ramanbhai did not initially notice it when his wife started to change, and now they have very...

From your experience, why has it been so hard?

The difficulties stem from having different thinking and from her point of view and how her thoughts began to differ from mine. I was not to know. If your thinking is different then it's bound to be difficult. Anywhere you go; if there is different thinking in the home, then there is no enjoyment. There was never any enjoyment.

From the beginning?

No, no, from when the illness started. It must have been from a long time but it was not known then. After 1972 -and what happened after 1997 was that it got worse for her. After that, little by little. It must have been there for years. Right. We did not know then. Two years ago, the doctor said it looks as if this [the mental health problem] is quite old. It came out slowly but I did not notice it. I kept bearing it [the problematic behaviour] and putting up with it, carrying on with it. I thought so, that must be it, her thoughts are like that.

Getting annoyed or angry didn't work and Ramanbhai now speaks to his wife in a gentle, comforting...

If you talk to her properly, then -only then does it sink in. I have looked at the whole thing, from telling her off or trying to rule her or being angry with her but it does not achieve anything. I have tried all of this. Right now, the main turning point at the moment, if you talk to her by pampering her, that, 'This thing is not this way or that', or 'If it's done this way it's good'. You have to laugh with her, even if you do not feel like it, you have to laugh, right? Toh, then she feels, 'No this is ok'. So the turning point is this, you have to talk to her very politely and slowly. That's it. That is mainly what I have seen. Yes. Very carefully, -if you talk to her- say to her gently, 'Keep cool, things have happened today but tomorrow it will go well. I am with you, do not worry'. 'Who is going to ask you? They will ask me'. See. If you talk like that.

Ramanbhai doesn't tell people about his wife's depression to protect her.

If the samaj (community) laugh at you, how have you coped?

With the samaj, my samaj don't know about this at all. I will tell you this. At the beginning -and I will not let the samaj know either, even my brother does not know. This, they way I cope, she does not do this with other people. What is happening, occurs with me not with other people. Sometimes when she does something wrong I will sort it out and cover it up, so it is not known to anyone. I am always with her. I avoid the situations where other people get to know. 

What are reasons for why you do not want people to know?

The reason for letting people know is, my wife does not like it. Then she thinks more about it. She will think, 'I am like this, I am a failure and I am like this, -is that why people are talking about me?' So if she finds out about this and at this moment in time, in her brain, it can be damaged a lot more. At the moment, the way her mind is it will have more of an effect. You understand? So we, the way I do things is to ensure that there is less effect on her. That she remains happy and less effect on her. What happens this way is we are all well. If you ask her to stand to face this, she will feel, 'Why me?'. If you keep telling her about one thing that is bad and keep repeating that, then it will get worse. So why would we let other people know? So people can look at her in that way. You understand?

Ranambhai's daughter gives practical and emotional support to his wife, including discussing ...

At the end of the day I have my daughter's support a little bit. So because of that I get a little bit of relief so I think it's alright. Otherwise my daughter will think 'My mum is sitting at home and my dad is out doing this'.

How does your daughter help, in what ways?

In terms of help, if a couple of guests are coming then she will come and help. Sometimes, if we want to go to the pub she will come and sit. She will bring some food with her to feed us and also eat with us. We sit in a group and enjoy being a family and that's it. Or if I need to take my wife anyway and I cannot go she will help with taking her. Sometimes, if my wife gets something into her head and does not want to talk to me she will talk to our daughter. Amongst ladies, they are more likely to talk to their daughters. After that my daughter will tell me secretly tell me that it's this way and don't do this and that. So that things can be straightened out. So with all of that it does give me some measure of peace because she says to mum that she is there for her and all of that. It makes a difference to her, lightens her mind.

Ramanbhai doesn't need any services himself, but his wife benefits from the local South Asian...

Are there any services that help you?

I do not go to anyone at all at the moment. I am doing things myself presently. When I need help I will go. At the moment asking for help from services. They did tell me- if I wanted to go to the pub for a beer or like that. But in cases like this, if I wanted to go for a beer, my son-in law he comes with me, either my sister or my daughter will sit at home for an hour or two. Then we will go for an hour or two. If I want to go, once in month or every two months. That's it. There is no need because I have got no bad habit. First thing. So I do not need that, because I can handle things nicely.

When you come here, what do you get from it?

When she comes here, she benefits a lot. She gets a relaxed mind and joins in with others and when I am with her, she has less worries about coming and going, this and that. Her mind becomes a bit free?