Antidepressants

When it comes to mental health problems I’m very psychologically minded okay I think the research suggests psychological therapy is much more effective than antidepressants and lasts a lot longer so the mainstay of my treatment is going to be psychological. And I consider mental health to be like physical health, you know, in physical health we’re not divided into sick people and healthy people we can all be fitter, you know, we could all it’s a spectrum and the same is true for mental health, you know, even if you’ve never had a mental illness you may not be living a mentally very healthy lifestyle. So there’s, there’s lots of things that we can do to improve our mental fitness and so a lot of my conversation with patients is along that line. So when it comes to certainly mild to moderate depression as distinct from people who have got mental distress or stress in their life. I think there isn’t a lot of evidence to say that antidepressants are effective at all, I’m very concerned that that we haven’t got clear data on antidepressants and some of them we have problems with publications bias that only the positive studies are being published I think the effects aren’t clear so I am hesitant to prescribe antidepressants to those people and would much prefer to try psychological therapies as a first choice.

I’m quite pro I suppose anti-depressant medication alongside the therapy because I do think it gives you a certain level of detachment that firstly I think is necessary to, for me obviously... it was needed for me to be able to really talk about things and secondly it helped me just to carry on whilst I was trying to, just carry on with things I suppose whilst, because the therapy it was awful at first, I mean she was fantastic, and by the end of it I thought and still do, the best thing I ever did but it was so horrible those first few sessions I don’t know if I could have, I don’t think I would have gone back if I didn’t have the medication. You know, whether or not it was in my mind that, that the medication was supporting me in that way, whether or not it was true that it was doing that, I needed that to be able to keep going and get a sort of breakthrough in therapy.
 
But I do think if I only had the medication and not the therapy I’d probably still be on it now because I think if I hadn’t actually learnt about these coping mechanisms and got to, I wouldn’t say the root of the problem because there was no real individual root but it was more about how I coped with stress and how I coped with sort of unravelling that, I don’t think, I don’t see how medication could have, I could come off medication if I hadn’t dealt with that.

The CPN was the first one and I think, I think the main thing I got from that was to accept that there had been things in my life that had happened and even though I thought they weren't big major issues they'd all sort of come together over the years and built up and built up and it did help towards me feeling bad. I used to feel very , I was a terrible mother, I was awful because everyone else can cope, everyone else loves their children, everyone else misses them and I didn't and I thought that was me and I was wrong and I was bad. So it helped me look at things differently .
 
And do you think that being on medication that you could think about those things more easily?
 
Yes, yeah, yeah. We touched on cognitive therapy which I have tried since. At the time it all seemed very, well if you're feeling OK yes that's going to be very good. If you're not feeling OK it's going to be very difficult to challenge your negative thoughts because they're your thoughts, you don't see them as negative thoughts that's just how they are .
 
It's a distorted reality isn't it but you can't…
 
Yeah, yeah.
 
When you're in that position it's very hard to recognise that.
 
Yeah when you're well you can see how it would work. When you're not well it's, it's quite difficult to put into practise. But I think the medication certainly helped me to be able to talk a bit more and listen a bit more and think and reflect on things that have been said and subsequent therapies definitely.

For the first time I acknowledged with him that I was depressed and he said I should think about going on some treatment for that. But I was starting the Cognitive Behaviour Therapy at the same time so I thought I’ve give that a go. But then I just thought no, you know, I do think that’s going to be helpful but I admitted to myself that actually I’m in a pretty horrid place and I just want to get out of it as quickly as I can so I also went on the treatment. And I should say the Cognitive Behaviour Therapy with Talking Space it was called let’s get it right, was really helpful and really good and I’ve benefitted massively from that but I think in combination with the treatment I have really turned around a lot in the past six months and now I look back and I think what a terrible place I was actually in and how there is life and a good life to be had, you know.
 
I think that the combination worked for me and I think the CBT was incredibly useful in the practical day to day things which, which help me deal with situations. But the, the tablets have helped the sort of underlying cause that has allowed me to embrace the CBT kind of perhaps better and be more open to it. I have to say when I, when the first, the first thing I went to at CBT was a group meeting so the doctor said you can go along on this course, sign up on this course and I did and the first thing I did was a group meeting and I came out of that really feeling terrible, really thinking this isn’t, this isn’t for me. You know I wasn’t expecting it to be such a large group of people and we were talking about, you know, ways you might, you know, ways you might approach fixing the dishwasher or something practical, and I thought oh my God why am I here these people clearly have no idea how I feel this has got nothing to do with my life, you know, and how can, you know, a group of forty people.
 
That was a lot.
 
It was... about 36 people, you know, how can we, how can we kind of deal with it. But it was a relief to see so many people there, you know, with the same sort of symptoms because it didn’t occur to me it could possibly be so common. But anyway I came out thinking that and then I looked at their website and I went for a one to one with the councillor who would see me through it and I spoke to her and I thought just give it a go, you know, just let’s see what’s on offer, nothing ventured nothing gained. And I found talking to her was very useful and having someone again there who would support you through it seemed to me to be a good thing. And I did the first, you do an online system and I think you have eight tutorials and stuff you do during the week.
 
And the first two I thought oh, you know, I’m still not sure but as I did it because I persevered and I spoke with her, after about week four I just thought I can see where it’s going, you know, this is , it starts here [talking over] but it takes you through. And what I, when it kind of clicked with me after maybe week four I actually got quite excited about it and I wanted to do it and I wanted to do the tutorials.

The other two really key things, several key things that have been useful for me have been things like therapeutic support along the side of the medication so getting some kind of understanding of what’s going on and I certainly found CBT very helpful and it’s I think particularly helpful when you’re not too ill because if you're not too ill you can engage with it and understand it and when you're getting unwell hopefully you can use some of those resources to stop it getting worse in some respect or to kind of keep yourself a little bit from succumbing to it. But the other thing really has been mindfulness; I don’t know whether you want me to say anything about that.
 
Yes quite a few people have mentioned that they have tried this, I think it’s a kind of new up and coming tool to use.
 
Well I kind of accessed already mindfulness type meditation through, it’s evolved through Buddhist meditation techniques and I already did... do Buddhist meditation techniques in various forms and some of them incorporate kind of the mindfulness. But obviously they weren’t in a mental health kind of setting or for that purpose. And I was lucky enough to be referred to a mindfulness course and what, and what I really, really found and discovered was that it really, really strengthened my own personal meditation practice and it really, it was a mindfulness based and cognitive based course so it was kind of in relation to people who may have suffered anxiety and depression so it was kind of helps you see connections I think with what goes on in your mind and how you process things but what you can do which is through breathing techniques and, and kind of more formal kind of meditation to kind of disengage from that. For me that’s more effective in many ways than CBT. Because CBT involves thinking again but your thinking is skewed when you’re depressed very, very hard to use your thinking mind. Whereas mindfulness what that teaches you is that when you're focusing with, first of all you disengage what is going on in your head because you are taught to focus on your breath you can focus on other things but it’s generally your breath and it might be a certain part of your body. but there’s always an anchor point so whatever is going on in your mind you’re taught to acknowledge it notice it but as soon as you start going off in the story of it and reviewing it or replaying videos in your head, as soon as you realise it’s happened just gently bring yourself back to the breath and don’t judge yourself.
 
It helped to meet other people and to go to some of the groups and realise that, you know I wasn’t completely crazy and other people had similar thoughts and feelings and suddenly it was the first time even though I know that other individuals, for example, in my family had suffered, it was the first time that I really heard from other people things that I had thought myself, felt myself and that was actually one of a key, key supportive development to my recovery was just feeling connected again. 

I think it’s awful, I think I’m ready to do it now, I didn’t think it wouldn’t happen for 18 weeks and well you know that’s, and I’m also aware of the fact that there are people that have worse, worse cases if that makes sense so for me in a selfish way I think it’s rubbish but in another way they wouldn’t be like that if their case load wasn’t so much. But actually I know what’s going on and that actually it’s much more political than it is about people and volume so I know what’s going on because I was involved in it for a while.
 
But when it’s affecting you maybe that changes how you feel about it?
 
It’s just that, just, I mean I’m ready to do this kind of now and everything seems to be set up for it to happen now and the drugs are kind of working, you know, and the citalopram seems to be working, I’m in a good relationship that’s just getting to a point where I either fix it or it’s probably not going to happen and I don’t want that to happen. But the actual therapy counselling side of it I can’t have for 18 weeks.

I think counselling is something that I should be doing but it’s one of those things it’s the first step isn’t it of doing it, it is kind of the hardest and I think it’s easier to not go and do that. So you know, I guess, you know, I chose medication this time because I wanted something instant, I wanted a quick fix I guess and I was thinking ‘Oh I’ll just take these pills and I’ll be better,’ but that doesn’t obviously solve the deep rooted issues that I may have or one person may have. So, you know, I’m more of probably advocate of going to counselling, I would tell my friends to go to counselling but doing it myself is a different thing isn’t it so I think I don’t take my own advice necessarily.
 
I love talking so I would love to go to a counsellor and, you know, chat but I, my life, again my life I make excuses like my life’s so full, you know, I’ve got my full time job I do and I’m an artist, I’m a photographer, I‘ve got this relationship, I’m doing this, I always make excuses that I’m too busy to go and probably do the thing that I should.
 
But the medications quite convenient to fit in with all of that?
 
Yes because you’re just, it’s swallowing a pill in the morning isn’t it and it’s, it’s kind of, you know, it’s an instant hit, well not an instant hit but it’s something where you don’t have to go and spend some time seeing someone and thinking are they judging you or, you know, all those things that you may think but they’re not but, you know, yeah so you know I think counselling’s something that I, I personally probably should be looking into.

I remember thinking quite clearly I wasn’t, I’d rather not try the drugs so if you’re offering me these two things I’d try the therapy first please. So that was that and I, over the period of twelve months embarked on a something like a guided self-help course and then a slightly more intensive form of CBT.
 
On the internet?
 
No through the local services that were available I think it was the IAP service. So I did a six week course over the summer which was called Guided Self Help and I, you know, I found some use in that, I felt but afterwards I didn’t really, I still was quite, because at this point I’d changed jobs because that workplace was really not very good for me and but nevertheless I was still feeling equally not that great about things. and then I did a second more intensive course of CBT, intensive probably in the sense that it lasted longer, it was more like twelve or fourteen weeks spread over about three or four months and that was, you know, I found it, there was a security in the knowledge that I was going to see somebody and that was good but it wasn’t particularly, I felt like always the person I was seeing had to go and check their notes at the beginning of the session to think who is this guy again and that we would go through things in quite a kind of, quite a deliberate kind of slightly patronising fashion and it felt a little bit like this wasn’t really about me this was about that person going through the stages that they’d been taught to go through for people with depression so I felt like a bit of a cog in a machine basically.
 
I guess my, from my perspective the thing that’s helped me a huge amount is doing a kind of personal long term in-depth kind of psychotherapy and that’s, that’s helped a hundred times more than anything else that I had.

So there was a kind of attitude conflict between the different people I was seeing. There was my psychologist, who has never focused on medication until recently. He suggested I take mirtazapine. There was no kind of…. He would see as the psychiatrist job or the GP’s job. The GP and psychologist would see medicine as their job but not the talking therapies. So it was a complete non communication between the people that I was seeing.
 
And going back when I was seeing the lady at the university counselling service - group therapist again there was this non, no communication. They were just - no you don’t take medication; you talk things through, that’s how you solve problems. And they didn’t talk to the GP or the psychiatrist whose main business to be honest was kind of crisis management and giving out medication. There was no communication between the two.

Talking through in group therapy and hearing other situations that people were having to deal with. Horrible situations that happened in people’s pasts, horrible just, you know, stuff like from the news really. And accepting that they were taking similar sort of, not necessarily the same medication but they were taking similar sorts of medication in order to dampen down all those fears that where rising in them for whatever trigger had risen some of their ancient fears so. I think once I was in a community of people that were prepared to express their problems which I hadn’t, there was no group therapy and talking therapy at the acute hospital I went to.
 
Even though everybody was casually telling each other what their problems were there was no structure to it and there was no and how do you get out of that hole to it. And at least the private clinic there was, you know, like and here’s how you do, you know they introduced us to CBT, they told us about the methods, you’ve got this fear, how big is this fear, is it real, does it really affect that situation and so you started to like wake up to how you can control those thoughts and things so. I think learning CBT really, really helped because it did stop me and made me analyse. And also being amongst people who were wanting to be protected and wanting to get better actually helped me to get more in that mindset. And I also, it helped me to get my problems into relative respective as well.