Lorraine and Annie

Brief Outline: Lorraine and Annie’s mother had her first major episode of depression when she was in her early 40s. Later, when she was in her 70s, she became very unwell after her husband and son died within a few months of each other. She was given anti-depressant medicines and tranquilisers but was then offered ECT. Lorraine and Annie agreed to try it. They now think that ECT led to a big improvement in her well-being.

Background: Lorraine, age 52, works as a cleaner and lives by herself but close to their mother. Annie (Lorraine’s sister), age 50, works as a nursery supervisor, is married and has two children. She also lives close by. They described their ethnic background as White British.

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Lorraine and Annie come from a large and very close family. Their mum had eight children, one of whom sadly died. They now care for their mother who is having maintenance ECT for depression and anxiety.

Lorraine and Annie said that their mother had been through a ‘terrible depression’ when she was in her early 40s. They felt this was associated with the menopause and with their dad who was ‘very domineering’. Their mother wasn’t allowed to wear makeup, had few friends of her own and didn’t make her own decisions. She had agoraphobia and was prescribed Valium (diazepam). At the time the doctor suggested that she have ECT, but her husband didn’t allow it. Now Lorraine and Annie have wondered whether if she had had ECT years ago she would have improved earlier. 

Their father passed away at the same time as their brother. During that time Lorraine also diagnosed with, and successfully treated for, breast cancer. Annie and Lorraine didn’t know when their mum’s mourning for her loss turned into depression. Eventually they got the doctors involved and their mother was prescribed tranquilisers and anti-depressants. Even on medication, they felt she had no quality of life. 

Lorraine and Annie had both heard of ECT years ago, but a consultant explained it to them. They were very sceptical about ECT at first, but when they heard more about it they thought it was worth trying as their mother was in a ‘sedated kind of coma’. They worried that their mum, by now in her mid-70s, was too old to withstand it. They were given information about the procedure in leaflet form. They wanted information from people who had actually been through the treatment themselves and were able to speak to people in the clinic who reassured them. Before being offered ECT, their mother was tested for lots of other conditions. Lorraine and Annie felt the decision to have ECT was in the hands of the family since their mother would probably do whatever they advised. They both felt lucky that they could access such high quality care and that the psychiatrist and the GP were so helpful. At first they felt as though the consultant was arrogant but over time they developed a good relationship with him.

When they went to the ECT suite, they were nervous. However as soon as they went in, the staff were very friendly and efficient. They took good care of everyone. When they saw their mother after her first treatment they were warned she would look quite drained. They noticed her memory was badly affected, and Annie and Lorraine felt quite scared. However her memory soon came back, and now when that happens they feel able to reassure her. After having ECT their mum would sleep for most of the day. 

Their mum had 9 treatments and then stopped having ECT. However after two months she went downhill again. She then had another 8 treatments with the option of having ‘top up’ ECT once a month. Annie and Lorraine said that their mother never minded going to hospital and never moaned. She did, however, always want to come home and not to stay in the hospital as an inpatient. 

Now their mother has been able to go out the house for the first time in 18 months. She even attended a family function. She still takes lorazepam (a tranquiliser) and the consultant thinks she is addicted to them. Lorraine and Annie think that she should keep taking them as it improves her quality of life. They are in disagreement with the consultant about this. 

They feel that if their mum hadn’t had ECT she would still be in her bedroom doing breathing exercises for her anxiety. They felt that they were lucky to hear about ECT because people they had spoken to didn’t know about the treatment. Caring for their mum is very difficult work but they get support from each other and the family. Sometimes they found it difficult to talk to other people about ECT as people didn’t know about the treatment. Although they thought she will always be a “home body”, their mum is able to interact and to do more activities now.

Lorraine and Annie felt that their father stopped their mother getting the mental health treatment she needed, and was overly controlling.

Lorraine: Well, mum was going to have ECT like Annie said years ago and she didn’t because my dad was, our dad was very, very domineering and just said, “No, you’re not having it.” And she’s always been domineered by him really. She’d say it herself, you know. And we think that’s some, where the, some of the trouble’s come from really.

Annie and Lorraine said that the decision that their mum should try ECT was a family decision. It took time for the doctor to understand that they had to make the decision as a family.

Annie: It did work, it did work. But I think as we’ve got to all understand it, I think doctors need to understand that, you know, a lot of it comes from…

Lorraine: The family.

Annie: …the family, you know.

Lorraine: Yes.

Annie: And it’s not just one-to-one, because mum would never have made that decision on her own.

Lorraine: No, not at first.

Annie: But, and at first we did have a bit of, with [name of doctor].

Lorraine: We did.

Annie: But I think as he got to know us and we were a very close family and all our interests were about mum getting better, I think then we all just worked together, which…

Lorraine: [mhm]

Annie: And it, touch wood…

Lorraine: And it worked.

Annie: it’s worked ever since.

Lorraine: Yes.

Lorraine and Annie felt the consultant gave too much detail about the ECT process to their mum and that she didn’t really need that much information. They felt she just wanted whatever was going to make her better.

Well, he directly asked mum if she wanted ECT, not me and Annie, you know. And she just looked at him vacantly like, “What did you mean?” you know. So we had to come in for her because, you know, and we said, “Well, you know, I don’t, mum will probably sit there and say, ‘Well, what is it?’” And, but she wasn’t even capable of doing that at first. She just sat there like, “What’s he talking about?” you know. And we’d say, “Mum, he’s asking you do you want this ECT treatment.” And then the doctor explained to, you know, in graphic terms what it was. But at the time she wasn’t really compos mentis to take it all in anyway. And I think that helped in a way. Because I think if she was she might have been like, “Oh, no, I don’t want that” you know. I don’t know. But, so we said like, “Oh, you know, what do you think, as you know, as you know?” 

And he says, “Well, I need your mother to understand what it is. I need your mother to tell me ‘yes’ or ‘no’ and sign this. And, you know, she doesn’t have to go when she’s signed it but, you know, I need to know.” And that’s just what he was like with her. He was, he, you know, telling her, he told her about three different, three different times she went to see him before she actually had ECT, and what it was and what would happen. And in the end mum said, “And if it’s going to make me better then I’ll have it.” And that was her words really.

Lorraine and Anne were worried about their mother having ECT at first but read the leaflets, looked online and talked to people at the hospital who had had it and were able to ask a lot of questions.

Can you remember what you were thinking during, during that appointment?

Lorraine: Oh, yes. I mean I instantly looked at Annie and I went, “Oh, no, no, none of that.” And I just, the thought of it just, even now, even though she’s had them treatments, she looks so well, the thought of it still makes my blood go cold really. But, you know, I thought, he just talked us through it, give us leaflets and booklets and we sat and read them.

Anne: He was very good, very good, weren’t he?

Lorraine: Went through on the Internet to find things out.

Anne: Yes.

Lorraine: And then we went back again and had another chat with him. So it wasn’t a, you know, just an instant decision. We eventually said, “We think you’re right” you know, and –

Anne: And I think had there been a website –

Lorraine: Yes.

Anne: -- that you could speak to somebody. Because as soon as we got to the hospital and you speak to people –

Lorraine: Yes.

Anne: -- and they say, “It’s marvellous, you know. We’ve got this out of it,” it then puts you at rest then –

Lorraine: Yes 

Anne: -- don’t it, Laura? You just think, “We have done the right thing.”

Lorraine: Yes.

Anne: You know...

What was the information that you were looking at, the leaflets and you went on the Internet and so on, what were they saying?

Lorraine: Just saying –

Anne: They were telling you the procedures rather than what people had, had found. You know, had, there was no one, there was no, no, nothing on there to say, “Oh, I’ve had it.” Where if we’d have, you know, it’s like that website, isn’t it? If you went on and found out things.

Lorraine: Yes.

Anne: But it was more about the procedures and what they did.

Lorraine: Yes.

Anne: And I think at the time that’s what we were looking for.

Lorraine: [mhm]

Anne: You know. But actually we needed to probably click on ECT, find out if you could have seen anybody –

Lorraine: Yes.

Anne: -- or spoke to anyone and asked them questions.

Lorraine: Yes.

Anne: But I think because we’d got this in our minds from many years ago, it was almost like, “Oh, God, it’s that treatment again and, but it’s got to be different now. Times have moved on” you know.

Lorraine: Yes. The booklet was really good as well.

Anne: Yes.

Lorraine: Because it told you where it started, how it come about. And then it went to people who’d ridiculed it and said, “This shouldn’t be allowed” to a group of people who said, “It should be allowed.” And then, you know, then the history of it, and then in the middle of it was about, it completely went out of fashion altogether and then suddenly come back in in the 70s and how people, there was a few comments of people who’d had ECT, it had, really, really had changed their lives and things like that. So the booklet was really good like that, but there was no people to talk to about it. And I remember Auntie [name] saying one of the, because she was in the mental health hospital for a while, she knew a woman in there who, she said she had ECT treatment but she was a young woman. So, and she said she was fine after it. And then our Auntie [name] said she knew somebody who’d had it, but again she was a young woman. And with us it was because mum was in her 70s, “Will she be able to withstand it? You know, will it cause something else?” And it was all that really as well. You know, the, because you can have strokes and all sorts of things and we were thinking –

Anne: [mhm]

Lorraine: “Well, are we doing the right thing? Are we going to make her worse physically?” you know.

Anne: Yes, yes.

Lorraine: There was all that as well. So all, and there wasn’t, like I say, the information there. So when we went to see [name of doctor] after we’d read the booklet, we just asked him questions about the booklet. And he said, “Well, you know.” What was his words in percentage? The percentage was like really good, wasn’t it?

Anne: Really good, yes.

Lorraine: And he said, you know, “If it was my mum.” “What would you do if it was your mother?” And he said, “Well, I’d say she needs the treatment.” Because the percentage was like 80 per cent was good and 20 per cent was bad. “It’s worth the chance.” So we went with that really.

A friend of Lorraine and Annie had lost her mum to mental illness and wished she’d known about ECT. They felt more people should be told about it.

Annie: And we’re in a very good situation where we get to know about ECT.

Lorraine: Yes, yes.

Annie: Because a lot of people I’ve spoken to, “What, what does that entail? What does that mean?”

Lorraine: Yes.

Annie: You know. And my, one of my friends lost her mum through mental health and she ended up committing suicide. But she didn’t know about ECT and she said, “Well, if we’d have known, would we have gone down that route, would we have done something?” You know, it’s all, so, but I haven’t come across a lot of people who know a lot about ECT.

Lorraine: No.

Annie: So I think to get it out there more as well, you know. And for people to realise it is out there.

When their mother’s depression got worse Lorraine and Annie said the health service did everything they possibly could for her. Other health problems were screened for and she was able to get care at home.

Annie: And then they came back that they think that it was anxiety due to my dad and my brother. So they were, just sort of said, “Oh, here’s a load of tablets. Go home.” You know, they were, they were very, very, we were very lucky, we are very lucky.

Lorraine: Yes, they’re good doctors.

Annie: Our doctors are fantastic.

Lorraine: They really are.

Annie: Yes.

Lorraine: Yes.

Annie: And they checked, you know, they were saying, “Well, let’s check this, let’s check this and let’s check that and make sure this is okay and see whether something’s not going on or we’re looking for something different.”

Lorraine: Yes.

Annie: And literally they have checked her, you know. I mean only yesterday or the day before she got a mark on her ear, our doctors, “Let’s get it checked out.” You know, so we was in the hospital yesterday just checking her out. Then she had a stomach complaint, didn’t she, Lol?

Lorraine: Yes, so he sent her for an examination.

Annie: “Let’s send her for a scan. Let’s just check.” They’re so, so good. We’re very lucky.

Lorraine: Yes, really good. We are.

Annie: We’re very lucky really. They’re fantastic.

Lorraine: Yes, they’re good doctors, they really are.

Annie: Aren’t they. And if mum can’t get down to the doctors they come in and see her. You know, they’re just so, so good.

Lorraine: The district nurse comes in every now and then to check all the little things and gives her a B12 booster. And she had that yesterday.

Annie: Yes.

Lorraine: So, you know –

Annie: They’re very good to her. So it weren’t a case of –

Lorraine: She’s having all the care that she can possibly have really.

Annie: Yes, and then when the doctors did everything they possibly could, they put us on to mental health.

Lorraine: Yes.

Annie: Like they’ve done all the physical –

Lorraine: Physically she’s fine.

Annie: They’ve checked everything. Physically she’s fine. Now we have to move her off. So, and then it went on from there.

Annie and Lorraine had days when they couldn’t face dealing with their mum’s depression and could get angry with her.

Lorraine: But sometimes you think, “Do you know what? Today I just don’t want this” you know.

Annie: Yes.

Lorraine: “Can you just keep it to yourself because I’m –

Annie: Yes.

Lorraine: -- I’m not bothered today. Leave me alone.” And it is horrible but that is part of it. You know, it’s like with mum we’ve come down and we do things with mum. But we have lost our temper, you know. And, you know, mum will, some-, when she was so bad like she was just so dormant, you know, everything you had to tell her to, “Do you want a cup of tea?” “Yes, go on then.” But you’d have to make it and then she’d, you know, “Well, drink it then” you know. “There’s your tea. You said you wanted one.” “What do you want for dinner?” “I don’t want anything.” But then you’d put a dinner in front of her and she’d eat it all. And it, the anger sometimes, I used to get really –

Annie: Really yes.

Lorraine: - I get really angry sometimes, you know, and –

Annie: We all do.

Lorraine and Annie were nervous taking their mother to the ECT suite. However they found people there to be very friendly and staff talked through what would happen.

So what happened on the first visit when you went to the hospital?

Annie: Oh, it was a strange, it was strange…

Lorraine: Yes.

Annie: …weren’t, because –

Lorraine: Because it was so early as well in the morning. So everything’s sort of, it was, be freezing cold because it was December, I remember.

Annie: Yes.

Lorraine: The snow was on the ground. Mum was really, really ill.

Annie: Yes.

Lorraine: It was like, “Oh, this is like walking into –

Annie: And it was –

Lorraine: -- hell” sort of thing.

Annie: It was almost through the back door, weren’t it, Lol?

Lorraine: Yes.

Annie: We got there and we just thought, and it’s definitely –

Lorraine: Yes.

Annie: -- your upbringing, it’s your attitude to what you know, isn’t it, Laura?

Lorraine: It’s education, isn’t it?

Annie: It really is. And we’ve seen this you know. Through the back door you know. And –

Lorraine: Yes.

Annie: -- you know, it was just a unit and we were just, “Okay, let’s go.” And there was a lady there, [name], she’s wonderful.

Lorraine: She’s lovely, yes.

Annie: Wonderful lady.


Lorraine: She’s not a nurse, but she’s more than a carer as such, yes. And she just, she just took mum under her wing, didn’t she?

Annie: Oh, she was just, and put us at ease straight away, didn’t she?