Linda - Interview 12
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Linda, aged 43, is White South African, works part-time as a Staff Nurse, is separated and mother of three children who were all born in the UK; ages 7, 9 and 15 years. Linda’s youngest child was diagnosed with a heart condition 12 hours after she was born. Linda recalls this moment vividly' their precise words were, ‘There’s something not quite right with your baby’’. The next day Linda met with a cardiologist who gave a diagnosis of a aortic valve problem, a fairly common heart condition among children. However, ‘it is a ‘big one’ to fix’. When her daughter was two months old, Linda was invited to consent for her daughter to take part in a clinical trial. The purpose of the trial was to test a drug to prevent respiratory infections RSV (Respiratory Syncytial Virus) among heart children. After reading the information she received and discussing it with her husband, she agreed and gave her consent. The fact that the drug was licensed was important to Linda as knew it was tested and safe.
Advances in medical care for children have resulted from children participating in clinical trials.
Advances in medical care for children have resulted from children participating in clinical trials.
I would say firstly as long as it doesn’t do your child any harm, you knew that guarantee. And secondly I’d say that, you know, considering from the time that Alexander Fleming invented penicillin, all the drugs and all the advances we’ve got now to help our children have been based on people being prepared to put their children forward or themselves forward and that for, you know, our children’s benefits. I remember very well when my little girl was born they said to me, you know, the longer we can stave off her heart surgery the more techniques are being perfected and perfected. And they said you’ll be surprised that in ten years time we’ll be able to do things that we can’t do now. Which is true because I know in France they’re certainly replacing the valves by just going through the groin which, you know, 20 years ago people would have not been able to do or even ten years ago. And so it is, you know, I would say unless it’s going to do your child any harm to, for us to progress in medicine and find cures for things that now are you know, life threatening we unfortunately just have to bite the bullet and, you know, [laughter]. And unfortunately, you know, subject our children and ourselves to these tests so.
Linda explains that they were testing a drug used in the treatment of respiratory conditions in...
Linda explains that they were testing a drug used in the treatment of respiratory conditions in...
The purpose was mainly to see if, I think they were getting a lot of hospital admissions of cardiac children who had contracted RSV [Respiratory Syncytial Virus]. And so they were trying to see if it could help, the vaccine could help children, cardiac children by well preventing them from getting, contracting RSV. Whereas they at that stage it had only been licensed for children I think with cystic fibrosis. And it had only purely been licensed for lung drugs rather than for cardiac. And I think they were trying to, very much driven by the cardiologists that if they, their patients could also get access then, especially for the, it appears that the sort of danger period is the 18 month, first 18 months. So they could have the drug for first, you know, get access and get, stay healthy for the first 18 months, their side effects would be less.
The nurse explained everything, even about the practicalities of parking, how long she would have...
The nurse explained everything, even about the practicalities of parking, how long she would have...
They did yes, very thoroughly I think I met with the research nurse for probably a good hour before I even saw the doctor and she explained everything very simplistically, you know. She was very clear about what was going to happen and how it would happen and even practicalities like, you know, parking and where I should park and remembering to zero my car so that they could pay me mileage for the, you know, very simple things and about the blood taking and things so.
Linda will involve her daughter in making an informed decision about taking part in trials when...
Linda will involve her daughter in making an informed decision about taking part in trials when...
Yes I would, yes. I, now would probably wait until she was older to be able to make more of an informed, not consent but where she could take, we’re getting to that now where not her, not her cardiac hospital but her, the hospital, we live about an hour away from her cardiac hospital but we have a local hospital, the local trust uses her for exams for the diploma in child health or the diploma not, the membership for the Paediatric exams. And she’s now getting to the point where I won’t just say yes, I will ask her whether she wants to go and do it because that now her little body is changing and things are becoming more and more sensitive about, you know. Taking her top off for any Tom, Dick or Harry whereas when she was three or four the promise of a lollypop was enough to sort of. And now I would involve her more in the decision but trying ultimately to steer her towards saying yes.
Having received excellent care for her daughter, Linda was keen to help other children with heart...
Having received excellent care for her daughter, Linda was keen to help other children with heart...
Part of it was a] to help people and see if this could help other heart children. But also to help her in the hope that she did have the actual drug, so.
Whether her daughter received the placebo or the actual drug was of less importance than seeing...
Whether her daughter received the placebo or the actual drug was of less importance than seeing...
No, it was a six month thing where she was injected for six months then it gives cover for I think three or four years they said. And certainly even though I don’t know the results I just anecdotally think that whatever she had, helped or we were just particularly lucky. Because certainly for the first four years of her life you wouldn’t have known that, she was a lot less ill than people had predicted she would be. People had, you know when she’d seen the cardiologist they had said that she would need if she got a cold it would hit her hard etc and none of that happened so. You know at one point I actually started thinking maybe they’d got it wrong and there’s nothing wrong with her [laughter] a bit of wishful thinking I mean because she was doing so well, you know, it was impossible to even contemplate that she would need open heart surgery she was doing that well so.
Linda's daughter was born with a serious heart condition. She was invited to enrol her daughter...
Linda's daughter was born with a serious heart condition. She was invited to enrol her daughter...
Okay well my little girl was born at four minutes past midnight on the 23rd July 2001, and by 11.56, I remember it rather well, a nurse listened to her chest to see if she, for her well baby check to see if she could go home, and they said she couldn’t and their precise words were; “There’s something not quite right with your baby”, which is not really words a mum wants to hear, you know, after hour long of waiting and labour and things. So she was referred to a cardiologist the next day, and diagnosed with a [heart valve problem] aortic valve which is a fairly common heart condition apparently it’s the most common childhood sort of heart condition there is. It’s a big one to fix but about one in about every 100 people have one but probably don’t know that they have one, that’s what research has shown. She was sort of followed up fairly regularly at the hospital where she was born by their fantastic cardiology team. And I was then approached by one of the directors of intensive care, or the Director of Intensive Care, to see if I would take part in a trial for a drug, which name has completely escaped me, its [Res] something like that. It’s, basically it’s a drug for RSV [Respiratory Syncytial Virus] which is a respiratory virus that children get. And it had already been licensed and that for me I think is a very important part because had it not been licensed I might not have been as keen for her to take part. But because it had already been licensed I knew it was tested and safe.
Linda considered the risks of her daughter taking part in the trial to the risks of her getting a...
Linda considered the risks of her daughter taking part in the trial to the risks of her getting a...
I was interested in the sort of the consenting to take part really when you know you’re not sure what you’re going to have and that actual yes we’re going to take part anyway.
Linda didn't like to take the money for expenses because her daughter had received such good care...
Linda didn't like to take the money for expenses because her daughter had received such good care...
To be honest it wasn’t I kept insisting that they gave it to the children’s heart unit. Because at that stage she was having cardiology appointments about twice every two weeks and having all the echo’s and by the time we’d had cardiology appointment about six qualified people had in some way or other they had some involvement in her care. Whether they would have been a dietician or the echo lady who does the echo or the ECG lady or the cardiologist or the nurse and so getting £7 for parking £7 for petrol or something in the days when petrol prices were slightly cheaper [laughter] seemed almost to me not being, not insulting towards me but insulting towards the hospital that I would even consider taking their money when they’ve given my child so much. And they’ve got at the hospital the children’s heart units got a fund and I just said please put it in there don’t give it to me. They made me sign for it to say that they had given it to me because they still had to get me to sign so that they could put the expenses through. So it was all paid for by the drug company it wasn’t paid for by the hospital. And the nurse was seconded to the drug company she wasn’t actually employed by the hospital and but it still just didn’t feel right taking money.
Linda would consider another trial especially if it might benefit her daughter.
Linda would consider another trial especially if it might benefit her daughter.
And now, that’s a, I mean because at the hospital where she’s seen for her heart, it’s sort of sister hospital does trials for nuts and that’s something I would take her for. They haven’t offered it to her yet but that’s a clinical trial where they do that where they rub a bit of nut on the lip and you have to, it’s all done in intensive care under very careful monitoring, and then systematically increase over a few days the exposure to nuts and that’s meant to, they have said that they probably wouldn’t offer it to her because she’s allergic to three kinds of nuts so that would be, you know, but then might peanuts which is the most severe allergy they might do. And that’s something I would consider but that would purely be for her benefit [laughter] yes, you know, that’s yes so that would be nobody else would benefit from that, that would just be her, you know.
Randomisation was a bit like a lottery. She does not know if her daughter got the actual drug,...
Randomisation was a bit like a lottery. She does not know if her daughter got the actual drug,...
A placebo, they probably did but I forget now what kind. They did say that some of the children would be receiving placebos some, they said it was, is it a double blind, does that mean, that rings a bell as where some children will be getting placebo, some will be getting the actual drug. They themselves didn’t know what was, it was all in I think, not, I don’t mean unmarked files but it wasn’t marked placebo. It wasn’t marked with the medication it was marked trial drug and you had to complete a diary for about 18 months afterwards to make sure that the child, to sort of say if they’d had any chest, it was all specifically respiratory problems, whether they had any colds, sniffles, coughs.
The drive to the hospital each month with her daughter, having tests and treatment with thinking...
The drive to the hospital each month with her daughter, having tests and treatment with thinking...
Well, we’d get there, and they’d take her blood I think to check for levels it wasn’t a sort of an instant thing or it wasn’t waiting for results or, I think it was to check if she got any antibodies or anything in her bloodstream. They would then inject her with whatever it was; they were injecting her either the placebo or the proper drug and then we have to wait for the hour. And then they take more blood, whether it was also to check for levels or, but certainly it was quite, it was quite time consuming. Only, I mean it was one day every, I forget when it, there was about four to six weeks, I think there was a window which we had to go for four to six weeks, it had to be done in that time because it’s not just a one injection thing it’s a series of injections that these children get. And I think that they so it was time consuming I think the fact that I was on maternity leave helped and things. Had I been at work it would have been more of a hassle trying to fit it in but the fact that I was off, it sort of just worked out quite well, you know, so but I suppose if you had been at work and you didn’t want to take part you could have the excuse of saying sorry I’m at work [laughter] whereas I had no excuse [laughter].
Giving her daughter a fifty-fifty chance of getting the treatment was worth the chance.
Giving her daughter a fifty-fifty chance of getting the treatment was worth the chance.
And certainly where I had worked at that point, I often worked in the infectious diseases unit in and knew cystic fibrosis people had come in with it and, you know, that once you get it it’s quite a severe virus and that people who immune are compromised get it. So I think for us from that point of view because, I think had he been a surgeon or something he might not have been that caring. But his [husband] main thing was if she can get, even if she only has a 50% chance of getting the vaccine it’s got to help her. So, you know, so that was my main motivation I suppose. I mean for us the risks of her taking part in a trial versus the risks of her getting RSV. RSV was by far the worst case scenario. So her getting the vaccine potentially outweighed the risks of, you know, for us that was, you know. Even though we don’t know which one she got and we had no guarantee of her getting it so. But it is certainly extremely expensive. So it is very, very she would have had no chance of getting it if she hadn’t taken part in the trial. It was very much, it’s very carefully screened who gets it and that is really on a, you know, you have to be really unwell before you’re considered to get it so I think this was one way of her getting it or potentially getting it with would be the only way of getting it.