Ivy

Brief Outline:

Ivy is 18. Her periods started when she was 10, before she had really known much about them, which was a frightening and difficult way for them to begin. They are heavy and markedly painful, and she gets pronounced leg pain with them, which makes it difficult for her to walk sometimes. She found deciding whether her pain was normal and when she could go to see a doctor tricky to work out. She went to see a doctor when she was 13, and was given the impression that she had normal period pain. She was prescribed strong pain medication with codeine in it, which helped but made her feel sleepy and sick. She has tried hormonal contraception, and different options, and now uses naproxen with a medicine to protect her stomach, which helps a little. She also finds TENS machines and heat can help. She has been referred to see a specialist, where she also recalls being told her pain was normal. She reflects that for her, knowing what might be causing her pain was more important than treatment when she went to see a doctor. She felt she had to work hard to do her own research and ask questions to be heard. She asked for, and had an MRI, and was discharged over letter when this was normal, having been told she was too young to have a laparoscopy. She would like periods to be something that people are taught about and meaningfully prepared for, with supports and resources in school and healthcare. She reflects that not talking about periods, or using code, causes a sense that periods are stigmatised, which makes managing them harder.

Ivy’s period pain and bleeding can start in the middle of the night which stops her sleeping, and is hard to predict and manage.

Do your periods stop you sleeping? Does the pain wake you up as well?

Yes it does. So, often I’ll wake up at 4am with just the most, like, onset cramps, and unfortunately I didn’t know I was gonna start my period, so there’s blood everywhere and you sort of have to manage that, and it’s got a big impact on you because like as... and even... even if I take periods... like measures like pain medication early in the morning, I’ve still got to wait an hour for it to hit in, so it does definitely stop me... stop me from sleeping. Especially the pain in my legs: I have to sleep with... with my legs elevated to help the blood flow and it’s just a lot you have to sort of go through, you know?

Ivy initially worried that she was finding her periods painful because of her pain threshold, but she realised this was not the case when they stopped her getting to school.

So I think just comparing myself to friends and like my... my... my Mum struggles with pain, but she was still able to do normal things and maybe need to rest more, but was still getting on with things and going to work and supporting her... her students at school. And I just remember feeling so down when comparing that, because I just felt so different, but also, I didn’t know that I... whether I was just being dramatic and I had a low pain threshold. So, it’s that comparing. And then from that I realised that I... I can’t go on with this... with this anymore. Like, I was missing school, which was then impacting on my grades, and... yeah.

Ivy found social media a lifeline in the early days of her periods. She felt less isolated and alone and found the advice about seeking help was invaluable for her.

Absolutely, it was so important. And it was actually nice to... it made me... me feel less lonely because for the first... first two or three years on my period I felt so alone in it and I thought it was just me having those pains, but actually it’s not, and there’s millions of people out there who are also experiencing these pains. You know, one in 10 people have en... endometriosis, so it shouldn’t be as taboo as it is and it shouldn’t be unheard about.

So, it was from... so I see, So the first... and when you looked for information, you went to the NHS website?

Yeah, I remember, and just sort of typing in ‘period pain’ and that was the first one which came up, and that sort of led on to my more deeper research into different articles, news extracts, even using so... social media like TikTok, especially TikTok which really influenced me, you know? Just putting ‘period pain’ into the search bar and seeing doctors who have actually gone onto that plat... and onto that platform as influencers and saying “if you’re in this much pain, it’s not normal”, and gi... and they sort of give more ed... and they gave me more education on social media about these things, which are so needed.

Ivy has found the information on apps helpful, but the cost of them makes them inaccessible for her. She thinks it is a lot of money for a teenager to have to pay.

Yeah, so I’ve used numerous apps, like I used to use Flo to control my periods, but there’s certain features which you’ve got to pay for, which is like £50 a year, and although I was tracking my periods on it, I found that it wasn’t being accurate. So, I’ve used four or five different apps, and although it’s given me some information, like it can give you certain facts, and stuff, I know on Flo there’s like a sort of blog article page, but you’ve got to pay. You can, like, view the first few lines and then pay a like annual fee to view the rest, so even if you try and look for the... the... the information you’ve... you’ve still got to pay for it.

So, it’s so close, but so far.

Exactly, that’s exactly it. So you go to the effort of getting the app and putting in your... your details and then you’re made to pay, and when you’re 13, 14, you can’t afford £54 a year to view, like, different ways you can manage your period, especially, I suppose a... a lot of information about diet on there, so obviously eating spinach con... containing iron can help your period, and stuff like that.

Ivy made sense of some of the side effects she was noticing on hormonal contraception when she read about them in the leaflet in the box they came in.

Yeah, so after I was sort of put on the pill, I remember going back to the doctor’s and being like: “This is making me... me feel quite low and depressed and really anxious,” because I suffer with anxiety anyway, so it was sort of adding on to that and then impacting on me going to school, because if... if I’m anxious, I’m not wanting to go into school and see people. So, I sort of went back to the doctor’s and they put me on a different pill, I can’t remember the name of it, it was a... a few years ago, then I tried that for a couple of months and I still wasn’t getting on with that. I found that I couldn’t stop eating ’cause I was really hungry, but I didn’t know why, because again that I hadn’t been told the side effects of these pills. I’d been given the box and the list... the list of... of symptoms, the hundreds of symptoms, but I hadn’t read through it probably ’cause I was still young, and... yeah.

For Ivy, seeing other people’s stories that she could relate to helped her realise that her pain wasn’t ‘right’ and that she could ask for help.

And when you looked for information, you went to the NHS website?

Yeah, I remember, and just sort of typing in ‘period pain’ and that was the first one which came up, and that sort of led on to my more deeper research into different articles, news extracts, even using so... social media like TikTok, especially TikTok which really influenced me, you know, just putting ‘period pain’ into the search bar and seeing doctors who have actually gone onto that plat... and onto that platform as influencers and saying “if you’re in this much pain, it’s not normal”, and gi... and they sort of give more ed... and they gave me more education on social media a... about these things, which are so needed.

And how did that... so you said that influenced you: is that something you found really helpful?

Yeah, definitely. So, I think because as teenagers we’re... we’re so on social media all the time, on TikTok, Facebook, you know, Twitter, Instagram, we don’t really go onto Google and start looking at articles, because teenagers aren’t really interested in the news half the time, and young people, so it just really helped. And like even on my feed, I... I was seeing stuff about period pain and I remember seeing someone who was documenting their experience with end... endometriosis – they were in their early 20s I believe – and they were... they were showing themselves on the floor bent over in pain, and also experiencing their... and also explaining their symptoms, and I re... remember being like: ‘I relate to this so much and something isn’t right here and I shouldn’t be experiencing this pain.’

Ivy has tried a TENS machine for her period cramps. She finds it helpful, but not very practical when she wants to go out, and is concerned about the cost of these and the cost more widely of having periods and period pain, which she thinks is unjust

OK. And have they been like... but you said it started really right from the very first period.—

Uh-huh, yeah. Yeah, so it’s been... the pain’s been consistent since then. So, I’ve always had de... debilitating cramps and had to take painkillers and just try ways. But also, there’s the big cost of these pain measures. So, I recently got a TENS machine from [website name], which goes on the stomach and it gives you TENS pains. And that cost £80.

Wow.

And there’s no funding for that. You just have to fork out for it yourself, but... you know.

How did you find out about that?

I saw that online on like an Instagram advert, or something like that, and then my Mum kindly bought it for me, which was nice of... of her, but I’ve tried countless things.

Countless things. OK, I’m gonna ask you about all of them, but has the TENS machine helped?

I found that it helped my stomach cramps a little bit, but it’s just not very practical when you’re out and about, when you’re at work, because even though it’s described as discreet, it’s not really, and it still, you know, pokes out on your stomach, which can make you feel quite self-conscious. And yeah, sort of poking out a little bit.

OK.

Yeah.

So, it helps at home, but it’s maybe not as easy—?

It can help at home, but yeah, but it just doesn’t help to my, like, leg cramps—

And maybe not as easy to hide.

—or my... my backpain, so...

Ivy took painkillers herself in the school toilets when she had very difficult pain, but was not sure what the correct doses were. She thinks schools should develops safe systems to help young people with period pain.

I remember in high school I literally spoke to one teacher in the, like, learning support unit about it because I was there two or three times a month with this pain, and I remember sort of like just taking loads of painkillers in the toilets, which sounds awful, but I didn’t know about the correct doses either about what... what I was taking. So unfortunately, at one point I did take too many and I was feeling really dizzy, and stuff, and I was sort of having to beg to go home. And yeah, I’ve just never felt comfortable like talking to the teachers a... about it.

Can you remember how they reacted, like when you went to talk to them about...?

Yeah, so I remember the first time, I was probably in like Year 9, or something like that, I remember just going to, like, [erm] the kind of first aid room a... about it and being... and being like: “I’ve got really bad cramps.”  Like I didn’t even want to say the word ‘period’ because I felt so ashamed and embarrassed that I’d... that I’d started these pains in school.  And I remember being like: “I’ve taken paracetamol, I’ve taken...” I think I’d taken two i... one ibuprofen, but I needed another one at... at that point.  And they... they didn’t even have those supplies in college.  So, they’d ask one of the English teachers to go to her car and get some painkillers for me, which it shouldn’t be that way.  And I was literally made a cup of tea and I was literally shaking, because I get really low blood sugar on my period, yeah.

Oh, absolutely. So yeah, as... as I said, there was that... the one time the... the English teacher had to go to her car and get me... me a couple, which tied me over a little bit. But yeah, there should definitely be... I think schools should be stocking these and almost having a consent form for those who do have the pain, and talking with parents as well to actually be able to dispense those. Obviously, I understand they should be controlled. So I think in high school we were... we were meant to like not really have painkillers in our bags, but I literally had a whole, like, pharmacy in my bag at some point: I had ibuprofen and paracetamol for my leg pain, and then I had, like, headache tablets for the headaches that come with that, and then codeine if it gets really bad, so I had like 12 of those in my bag, and it’s just a lot to have to manage by yourself with GCSEs and all of that.

Ivy prefers period pants at home, because they are the most comfortable. Changing underwear and menstrual cups when out of the house, or at school, can be difficult, which for her limits when she uses these options.

Absolutely, so...

Its quite hard to use the other products?

Ab... absolutely. So, at... at home, I... I mostly use period pants because I find them the most comfortable, but obviously when you’re at college, or wherever, it’s not practical ’cause you like can’t be...—

Be change.

—be... be changing your underwear every two, three hours, you know? And yeah, cups and stuff, obviously, if you’re emptying in college, it’s not very... that sanitary; I don’t... I don’t use them personally, but if you do... And then also sterilising them, because they have to be sterilised quite often, you can’t just try and do that in college, you know, so there’s a... a lot of, like, discomfort with that.

Ivy thinks that across society, people should speak more about their periods and period pain, so that people can compare symptoms and talk about how they are feeling.

Can you tell me what your... what... yeah, can you tell me a bit more about what you notice with that and like where you think it’s taboo, or how you think that happens?

Yeah, so I think we... we just don’t talk about periods enough. We don’t compare our experiences. We don’t say how we’re feeling. We’re told to use menstrual products and get on with it. We’re told that like, you know, we shouldn’t be resting more, we should just get up and deal with our period. We should be doing exercise to sort it rather than medication, and actually allowing our bodies to rest. I do understand some exercises like swimming and yoga can often help, but... yeah.

OK. But we’re not maybe gonna be wanting to—

We’re not gonna be wanting to do that.

—wear... wanting to wear shorts and play tennis

Exactly, so it’s just a lot of it’s like unrealistic. And I just think it’s... I think as a society, we just don’t talk about our personal issues enough and we don’t... I think we need to start speaking more about period pains and our symptoms and comparing how we’re feeling and our individual experiences with that.

Ivy thinks that worrying about making other people feel uncomfortable makes it harder to talk openly about periods and period pain.

Yeah. And do you feel like that happens yet or not... not in your experience?

No, so I remember being... amongst friends, I remember us not really having many conversations about it. I probably had one friend who I was sort of comfortable talking about the pain with, and I’ve got a couple of friends in college who I’m sort of open about, because I... I do miss quite a bit of college. I’m missing, you know, two or three days a month because I’m just in bed in unbearable pain. So yeah, I just don’t think we’re speaking enough a... about it.

And what do you think kinda stops people or holds them back?

I think it’s... a lot of it is they don’t realise other people... I don’t know, I feel like especially in Britain, we don’t wanna make other people uncomfortable. So even topics like end of life, which I’ve studied in college, we... we don’t talk about. We don’t talk about our period pains. And especially if you’re in public, talking a... about it in... in a coffee shop in front of men, they’ll... they’ll think it’s disgusting, or whatever.

Yeah, I’ve heard... And so that’s a... I mean, that’s a brilliant observation that we... we don’t... that we don’t talk about things ’cause we’re worried they might make other people feel uncomfortable.

And that’s exactly it. So, we don’t wanna make people uncomfortable. We don’t want them to think less of us or think of us as disgusting or gross.

Yeah. So, there’s somewhere still this idea that periods are a bit disgusting and gross.

Yeah, disgusting and men shouldn’t know about it and it should be like a secret thing be... bet... between us ladies.

Ivy thinks doctors don’t take young people seriously. She tried to learn medical words to convince them to listen to her.

The laparoscopy, they did mention, but because I was only 17 at the time, they don’t like to do it under 25, or something, which I totally understand, he was again giving me information against that, rather than for it. So, he was saying “you’re so young, it probably isn’t this”, and again just gaslighting and pushing me away from it. And if I didn’t mention the MRI, or even the ultrasound, I wouldn’t have had that, and being age 16, 17, 18 now, I shouldn’t be having to tell the doctor what I want and you shouldn’t be having to do that research by yourself and looking at these massive Harvard studies to try and work out what you actually need.

Do you feel like the age that you were, has had an impact on...

Oh, definitely, abs... absolutely. So, I think the normal age to sort of start your period’s around age 13, 14, so I consider my... myself early, even though I was 11, and I just think... I think a lot of GPs and doctors and specialists don’t take young... younger people seriously and they don’t... they sort of think we’re like over-exaggerating our symptoms almost, if that’s the correct way to put it? So, I just feel like I wasn’t taken seriously by it. And although I was doing research and trying to think of like special words to sort of tell them, like... like literally telling them the medical word for period pain and all of these things to try and be taken seriously and to try and actually make them realise I’m serious about this and I’m actually going through this.

Ivy had prepared for her GP appointment by making notes on her phone, but was told she could not go through all of them in one appointment, and had to pick the top three, which she thought was not ‘amazing’.

So, I remember going to the doctor’s, I think I had a male doctor at first, when I was about... when I was about 13, and I just re... remember being told... like, they didn’t do many checks on me, they just felt my stomach, which isn’t really effective, you know, and they didn’t wanna listen to my prob... to my problems, so I... I would have needed about a 40-minute appointment, but I was only given 10 minutes because that’s what you get at the... the GP surgeries, unfortunately, so I couldn’t go through all of my problems. And like I re... remember going in with this list of problems on my Notes app on my phone of about 20 problems and they told me they couldn’t go through all of them in that session, so I had to pick out the top three, which obviously isn’t that amazing. And I re... remember just being told that people have period pains and I should basically get on with it, and I was like: “I do understand that, but I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t need pain medication or other precautions.”

Ivy waited 18 months to see a specialist after her GP referred her (and her original referral got lost in the system). When she did see them, she felt they did not take her period pain seriously.

And then I kind of, a couple of years later, I went back to the doctor’s, tried out different pain medications, that acid tablet, and then finally naproxen. And then I asked for a referral to the hospital, I think it was [hospital name], and I was on the waiting list for six months and then I changed GP practices and the referral was lost, so then I had to be re... re... referred, so altogether it took about 18 months to be seen by a specialist at the hospital. And then, again, I remember just not feeling very valued and they didn’t really wanna listen to me, and were telling me: “This pain’s normal,” when it’s clearly not.

And, again, I had a... a... a male doctor, so I... I didn’t feel completely comfortable with him, un... unfortunately, and I found, like, he was using a lot of, like, medical words, which I wasn’t really understanding yet at that point, and I was like: ‘what is actually going on?’

Was that in an adult gynaecology clinic?

That was an...

Or paediatric?

I think adult at that point.

Ivy asked her specialist for an MRI scan. When it was reportedly normal, she was discharged from follow up without another appointment by letter. She understood they had said they would not do any further tests like a laparoscopy because of her age.

So did you need a re-referral each of these times—

Erm...

—or was this... you were still under them?

I think I was still under them; I was only referred twice once I changed G... GP practices.

Mm.

Yeah, so then I remember going in and I said, “I’ve done loads of research and I know endo... endometriosis...” which I thought that I had, and I may still have, I’m not too sure, “can be diagnosed with an ultrasound,” but it’s better to have an MRI. So, I basically said to him... and then he didn’t want to re... refer me for an MRI, obviously due to the cost on the... the NHS, and he was... he was basically giving me loads of info... information. Like they... they usually don’t de... de... detect it on MRIs and you... if you’ve got it, they probably won’t be able to see anyway. So, basically gaslighted me almost, which I sort of identified that, so I kept pushing, and although it sounds bad, I literally said to him: “I’m not leaving unless I get referred for an MRI,” and he did it. So with a bit of pushing he did that, and then I went along and had that, I think this was June, the end of June this year, and they couldn’t give me the contrast dye for a cannula. So, the sort of results were impacted a bit ’cause they couldn’t actually outline the areas inside me, but I was told that was clear, and since then I’ve had... I haven’t been back to the doctor’s.

Have you got any follow up with them?

No. I got a letter saying that I’m being discharged, but I didn’t have any say in that, they just told me I was being discharged.

Did you... did they ever talk to you about other tests or... or laparoscopy?

No, no.

No, you never...

The laparoscopy, they did mention, but because I was only 17 at the time, they don’t like to do it under 25, or something, which I totally understand, he was again giving me information against that, rather than for it. So, he was saying “you’re so young, it probably isn’t this,” and again just gaslighting and pushing me away from it. And if I didn’t mention the MRI, or even the ultrasound, I wouldn’t have had that, and being age 16, 17, 18 now, I shouldn’t be having to tell the doctor what I want and you shouldn’t be having to do that research by yourself. And looking at these massive Harvard studies to try and work out what you actually need.

Although it’s debilitating, Ivy feels she can handle her period pain, but wants to know what is at the root of it so she can work out what treatment approach to take.

I remember just not feeling valued, or like I was having my symptoms heard, and I just felt so inferior, almost, because, yeah, that they just jump... I feel like with a lot of GPs, obviously not comparing it to you, but a lot of the NHS, they just want to treat the problems and not get to the root of things. And since then, I’ve been... since then I’ve been to the doctor’s probably about... about 10 times. I’ve also had MRI scans and ultrasounds, and I... I just told the... the doctors: “I’m fine managing the pain, I just wanna... want to know what’s causing it.”

And... yeah, and then I was finally referred for an ultrasound. I had a kidney and pelvic ultrasound, and that came back clear, and then I still went back to the doctor’s and was like: “This pain is still so intense.” So, I was referred back to the gynaecology clinic, sort of rebounding, and I remember going in and they tried to put me on the new pill for endo... endometriosis, which I told them before, I don’t want, because I can manage the pain, I’m fine managing it even though it is debilitating, I just can’t get to the root of it because I want to know what’s causing it because if it is a... a nerve problem, I can have, like, holistic treatments for that, like acupuncture. If it’s endo... endometriosis, that’s actually growing inside me, I want that removed or I want to know how I can treat that, almost. So, the doctor basically tried to turn me away again with those tablets. And then I went back.

Ivy thinks young people should be given enough information about treatments and options to make decisions and proactively supported to be followed up to see if they have helped.

Absolutely. So, even just be given a booklet about... I think there... there should be, like, a sort of pamphlet about every single medication which can be given to someone. And especially when you’re 12 or 13, and you don’t really understand medical words, it should be simplified and there should be like, you know, pictures saying, you know, “you take this once a day,” or this and that.

And has anybody ever told you what to do when you’ve tried something, so they’ve given you a medicine, can you remember anything about the kind of advice you got about what to do next? Or what to do if it helped or it didn’t help or... or reviewing things?

Yeah, so I was kind of told like you can try this medication, so-and-so, for two or three months and see how that will work, and what I found annoying was a lot of things would take months, and even like six months just to start working. So, especially for the pill, I found it took three or four months still to actually be effective, and during those first few months when I was feeling quite low and kind of de... depressed and more anxious, I was still experiencing the pain. So, I think it just takes time to settle in. And even though I was informed about that, I wasn’t really given regular reviews, like I had to actually go back to the doctor’s myself and say “this... this isn’t working. I want to discontinue this”.

OK, and that... I think that was at the heart of...?

Mm.

So, would you... would you like to have had a: let’s review things in six months’ time?

Yeah, so I would have liked, you know, things in place—

A plan.

—and like actually then booking the tele... the telephone appointment rather than putting that on a 14-year-old to like book this in six months’ time, phone up, and stuff like that

OK.

—so regular reviews, yeah.

Ivy gets stomach upset with naproxen and takes omeprazole to counter this. She thinks that young people should be given more information about side effects.

And although I feel like doctors and these, like, commercials for like Feminax saying... saying like: “Take... take these two £5 tablets and your pain’s gone in 20 minutes.” Although you can take that, I feel like you can try and combat your period pain, but once you take the tablets you’ve got to deal with the... the... the side effects with those tablets, so... I take naproxen which can obviously cause stomach ulcers, so I have to take omeprazole with that, which I don’t like taking ’cause it just feels a... a bit weird inside you. So, there’s a lot of things I have to con... consider as well.

So yeah, I think there’s just... I think there’s a lack of information and knowledge, and people aren’t informed about what’s gonna happen to them. So, I was told just to take the pain medication when I’ve got my period, but I wasn’t told when to take it or the side eff... effects of that, which would have been so important, especially on naproxen, which gives me quite bad brain fog – it makes me feel quite sick.  I wouldn’t... I didn’t really know that was gonna happen to me, so I was quite shocked because I didn’t know was it not actually combating my period pain, and was the sickness from my period pain, or from the... the tablet? So, I think definitely having more leaflets and in... information about that would have been so ben... beneficial for me. 

Ivy was prescribed codeine for her period pain. This made her feel dizzy and tired at school, and impacted on her when taking her GCSE exams, which was ‘really difficult’.

So in the lessons that you’ve had at school, has anybody ever talked to you about kind of when you might want to get advice or... or anything else about it?

I’d only be about... about 12 or... or 13, and they just wanted to go straight to biological in... in... inter... intervention, so they... they put me on co-codamol when I was 13, which obviously made me quite dizzy and tired at school.

Yeah, so I sort of went to the doctor when I was about 13, 14, I think I was about 13 though, and I was given co-codamol, which I later found out I shouldn’t have been put on early, by a different GP. So, they weren’t really following the correct policies and procedures for that time, and that just made me feel so sick.

Yeah.

And although it did help with the pain, I shouldn’t have been 13 and struggling to stay awake in school

Awake in school.

—on my period because I was taking these medication

And like I remember doing my GCSE English exam, which was, like, poetry, so that was two and a... two and a quarter hours, and I was doing that while taking codeine tablets, which make me so sleepy, and obviously the brain fog as well, so it does have such a big impact on your studies ev... even if you can control them with medication.

The medication has... no... Yeah, and actually asking about impact on things like exams was one... and that’s really difficult when you’ve worked so hard.—

It is, after working so hard for 10 years in education and then it comes down to that final exam.

Ivy encourages young people to not be afraid to ask for help, and to keep trying until they get the help they need.

Yeah, I think don’t be afraid to reach out for help because that’s such an important thing. I re... I remember feeling like I didn’t know what if this pain was normal. And the thing is, if you’re experiencing such bad period pain, it’s not normal, and don’t be... don’t feel ashamed to go and talk to whoever you... you feel comfortable, so whether that’s teacher, whether that’s the school nurse, whether that’s even your friends, because it can be so embarrassing still just talking to a friend about it, but don’t be afraid to reach out and actually get the help you need. And also, if you’re dismissed by a doctor, or medical professional, be persistent, you know, say “I’m not leaving till this is addressed”. Raise your voice if it has to be, which I have done before, you know, and make yourself heard.

Mm, it’s really hard, but...—

Yeah.

—but that’s the way it has to be.

That is the way it has to be unfortunately, and yeah, just don’t be afraid to... to reach out for help.

Ivy would like awareness and education about periods should start in primary school.

So, I think there should have been more awareness about what a period is, so even starting from primary school. I believe this talk should start from Year 4 onwards, even before having an understanding on what a period is. So, like... but also talking to children in a manner which they’ll understand, and using diagrams, but not being ashamed to show those diagrams. So, like starting in Year 4 when children are 9 and 10, because some children do start that... that early. I know people who have started that early, and they’ve carried on from that, so even earlier than me. And I think if I was in Year 6 and didn’t know what a period was, or didn’t understand it, how would children in Year 4 and Year 5 feel? And it’s just disgusting to think about. So, I think more awareness and not being ashamed to say those things. So, like the bins, actually say the word ‘period’ because that’s where the stigma starts. And I went back to the primary school last year and they’ve now got bins in every toilet and also a bag with pads and tampons in, which I never had, we never had that, we... we didn’t even... even have bins at that point. So, I think having access to resources, not just having to ask for it, but also having them available.

Ivy wants more education in schools, including in the older years. This should include health conditions and emphasise the message “that it is OK to go to a doctor about the pain”.

So, I think again just giving people in... information. So being in like Year 5 and Year 6 and even also carrying those talks into Year 7 and Year 8 and even Key Stage 4 and always giving people the resources for this... this information. So, kind of actually in... instead of... of just... just going: ‘girls start their periods when they’re between 11 and 13 and they might have, like, stomach pain sometimes, and they’re moody and irritable.’ And I feel like that’s sort of still the stereotype, like when girls are like on... or like on their periods, they cry a lot, they’re sensitive, they... they watch Netflix and eat chocolate, like that sort of thing. So, I think it’s also about breaking the stereotypes down. And actually, like there’s... there’s a lot of like simulators now which, like, men can put on those, like, sort of pads and experience the pain, and they’re, like, bent over: when the girl’s trying it, she’s absolutely fine, because we’re sort of adapting to it.

So, again, linking back to the education: just having more education, and sort of I think especially in the older years when people understand, giving woman the opportunity to actually know what different disorders are out there. Because, I didn’t know there was even pain... like period pain disorders, I just thought it was just called ‘period pain’, full stop, there wasn’t PC... PCOS, endometriosis, I didn’t know about those things, so... But also having a rundown of those things and having leaflets and stuff available on the symptoms, and also, that it is OK to go to a doctor about the pain, and stuff like that.