Systemic Vasculitis

Thoughts on the future with systemic vasculitis

This page covers:
  • A different future with systemic vasculitis
  • Hopes and fears for the future with systemic vasculitis
  • Systemic vasculitis and thoughts on dying

A different future with systemic vasculitis

Vasculitis and its treatment meant that people had to adjust to a different future than the one they had expected. They commonly told us that, while they would prefer not to have vasculitis, they try to make the best of their situation. Jane X, for example, said there’s a limit to what doctors can do and “I don’t expect a miracle.”
 

Jane X would rather not have vasculitis but is “really pleased with how much better I am.”

Jane X would rather not have vasculitis but is “really pleased with how much better I am.”

Age at interview: 55
Sex: Female
Age at diagnosis: 51
AAV
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You never know how you’re going to be. This morning I got up and my ankle was swollen up for no reason at all, just was. Now it’s gone down, but this morning I had my walking stick around the kitchen. And now I don’t need it. But that’s frustrating still.

I don’t expect, I don’t expect a miracle. There’s a limit to what doctors can do and I’m really pleased with how much better I am. Really pleased. But of course, I’d rather be well, I’d rather not have it. Anybody would rather not have to live with it. But I think, well, I’ll do the best I can with it. And I’m happy now, I’m happy with the sort of level of, you know, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say, “Oh, I’m not well enough, I need more treatment,” I’m happy with how I am,” you know? When I go and see the doctor now, I tell him, you know, I’m a hundred per cent better than what I was and I think this is good, you know, it’s a good pitch to be at because it’s, it’s not really possible to turn your immunity off so much as you don’t have any symptoms, I don’t think.

I’ve never heard of anybody say, “Oh, right, it’s gone away, I just don’t have it anymore,” you will still have days when it’s not so good? And there is no pattern to it or rhyme or reason to it, or – well, not that we know what it is. It just is. Some days are worse than others. You’ll have spells, I might have a week or so when it’s worse than normal, but it never goes back. And I don’t think it ever will, really. I hope not, anyway. I don’t think I’ll ever be like I was before I was on the treatment. And if I got like that again, I suppose they’d try something else.

Yeah, because there are other things.

Yes. Yeah, there are, yeah. I’ve been lucky, I’ve not really needed the really big guns things that they need. As I say, it’s not gone for my kidneys or anything like that, so, you know, people who have that sort of complication often have to have much stronger drugs, at least at the beginning. So, I’ve been lucky that way. I was lucky that they’d found it before it really, I imagine had it been left, it would have done something. So, I was lucky it didn’t.

 
Pete feels that, in talking about the future with vasculitis, it’s important to “lift” people so they see “there can be a positive outcome. You know, it’s not all negatives.” For Holly, it was important to share her experience that recovery can be limited and that most people “don’t have an easy ride.”
 

Holly thinks her future with vasculitis may not be the “happy outcome” or “very inspirational story” that people like to read about.

Holly thinks her future with vasculitis may not be the “happy outcome” or “very inspirational story” that people like to read about.

Age at interview: 24
Sex: Female
Age at diagnosis: 19
AAV (GPA)
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I think the consultant said to me when I was first diagnosed in hospital they said if, if they had waited an extra week to diagnose me, I wouldn’t, I would be dead, because I deteriorated so quickly and I was so unwell at the time, but now I’m even more unwell, day to day, which is strange really [laughs].

I guess maybe it’s not the happy outcome which, you know, sometimes you might want to read about of sort of, you know, the, the story, very inspirational story sometimes of someone got this very severe thing, then they started treatment and four or five years down the line they’re now doing, you know, ten kilometre marathons and things like that and that’s not the reality for every single patient, in fact I think that’s probably not the reality for a vast majority of patients that gain a chronic illness is, you know, not every single person recovers fully, not every single person, you know, goes into remission, some people develop further things wrong with them, like I have. Some people develop complications as a result of the medication that they’re on, like I have, its, you know, it’s things like that, it’s very, I’d say being part of a support group of people that have the same thing, the vast majority of us don’t have an easy ride with it. The vast majority of us do develop much more complicated problems, and it’s not always just an easy road of, you know, you get unwell, you get diagnosed, you start treatment and then you’re recovered and then you go back to living maybe a normal life or relatively normal life that’s maybe slightly adapted. It’s never, it’s never this kind of start at the bottom, go up and then wooh, it’s you’re fine again, it’s chronic illness unfortunately and disability is very much a sort of, you know, it’s a wave, it’s a, it’s never just a, can’t remember the term, you know, upwards trajectory, it’s very rarely that.

 
An experienced nurse told Charlie that patients often say life with vasculitis is different rather than necessarily worse than life before it. As part of adjusting to this different life, Charlie’s wife is writing a picture book for their daughter, so she accepts vasculitis as “part of the family.” 
 
Most people acknowledged continuing anxieties and awareness that life might be limited, while at the same time not wanting to be “defined by” their vasculitis. Steve and Peter were among those who found vasculitis has focused their mind on the time they have left and how they want to use it. 
 

Living with vasculitis has made Steve think about his “legacy in the world.”

Living with vasculitis has made Steve think about his “legacy in the world.”

Age at interview: 60
Sex: Male
Age at diagnosis: 59
AAV (MPA)
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And you know, sometimes lie awake at night, getting very anxious about it. And what I mean by that is you get worried about how much life you’ve got left, quantity, and you also get rather worried about quality you know, what quality is that life going to be, or you get you know, you even have sort of nightmare visions of ending up in a wheelchair, you do, you inevitably think these things.

And I’ve found it very helpful to talk to my doctors and the nurses about that, and that’s been, that’s been very reassuring. You know, they don’t, they don’t gloss it over, they’re, they’re honest, which I appreciate you know, but at the same time a lot depends on factors that are specific to you, and it’s important to understand that and keep it, keep a grasp on it.

I would also say that, on the upside [laughs], which sounds a strange thing to say, but on the upside there is a benefit, and the benefit, it’s kind of something that you hear a lot, but I think you hear it a lot because it’s true, and that is, it does focus the mind. It does make you think, “Well you know, if I’ve only got a few years left, well I’d better use them well.” It does make, it does kind of wake you up in a sense, and make you feel that, I know this sounds a bit grand, sorry about that, but… other patients have said the same to me, you kind of feel what’s my legacy in the world, what am I going to leave behind, and you want to leave some kind of, yeah, achievement behind you.

You know some people, for a lot of people that’ll be having children and bringing them up, and that’s a wonderful thing. I haven’t done that, I don’t have kids, so you know, for me it’s, it’s doing my research and making a contribution to that field. So that’s become you know, very, very important to me.

Getting through intensive care put life into perspective for Peter and helped him come to terms with what he had lost as a result of vasculitis.

Getting through intensive care put life into perspective for Peter and helped him come to terms with what he had lost as a result of vasculitis.

Age at interview: 67
Sex: Male
Age at diagnosis: 50
AAV (MPA)
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I think in my case, maybe a little different to some others, in that when, [laughs] forgot to mention this, when I was rushed into intensive care, when I was in there for a few days, on the second – I think my wife said it was the second or the third day, they were extremely concerned about me because I had developed a really bad chest infection in intensive care. And I think they were at the point where they didn’t think I was going to make it.

And, albeit I don’t remember anything about hospital or being there at all, not even a micro, millisecond, the feeling that has been expressed by other people that I know, the feeling that I was fortunate to come out of that and come through it, I think certainly put a new, a new, [laughs] new aspect on the rest of my life. I certainly, as much as I possibly can, make the best of my life. And things that used to concern me are trivia.

And I, that has helped me come to terms with my situation, the things that I have lost or the things that I used to have, or liked to do, like my motorcycling and other things. And maybe more, a more comfortable person with myself, I think, and what I have. I mean, that’s also been helped by the fact that I’m now retired, therefore certain pressures in the past aren’t there. So yeah. It has its good sides [smiles].

 
Mo thinks she puts pressure on herself “to do as much as I can, because I just don’t know what’s around the corner, with this thing, with this monster.” Marie regrets that vasculitis has affected her so badly but “cannot regret the fact that it’s kicked my butt,” as she is now clearer on what she really wants to do with her future. Karen noticed her vasculitis diagnosis prompted some friends and family to do things they wanted as it made them realise “life’s a bit short.” 

Hopes and fears for the future with systemic vasculitis

While it was routine for people to fear vasculitis coming back, they also told us about their hopes for the future. 
 

Gail will soon have a granddaughter. She wants to be “a huge part” of her life in spite of vasculitis.

Gail will soon have a granddaughter. She wants to be “a huge part” of her life in spite of vasculitis.

Age at interview: 52
Sex: Female
Age at diagnosis: 50
AAV (EGPA)
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So, and I’ve got a wee granddaughter coming on the second of November so, [my other daughter’s] 31 weeks today. So that’s really exciting, you know, and, things like before how would I have managed, how would I have managed having her because obviously I want her to be, I mean my mum was a huge part of my daughters’ life, a massive part of my daughters’ life, and I want to be that person, you know, I want to do that as well, but how do you do that when you have got a disability? But and I think people have thought that, you know.

Who was it said, somebody said to me, “How would you get down the stairs with her?” and I said, “Well I’d carry her [laughs] on my stair lift, you know, when she gets a bit older, I’ll sit her on my knee.” And there is maybe plans for the future to get a bungalow, I’m thinking of maybe selling and buying a bungalow because that would be easier for everybody in the long run.

But things like there’s wee cribs that you can get and you can actually fold them so they, I could carry that down with the wee one, and. So, there’s lots of positives that, I can’t wait to get the pram because, I’m fine if I’m pushing something, see if I’m in a supermarket or anywhere I always get a trolley and I put my stick in the trolley, I’m fine, as long as I’m balanced, you know?

Yeah, so I can’t, and that’s I think what’s, I tried, although it was really painful, but I tried to make me concentrate more on the treadmill to try and build that muscle up in my legs, so that I can go a bit further, you know, walking wise and it’s just so exciting. But, but there’s lots of positives out there and I don’t, we don’t think of it, I don’t think the girls do and their partners don’t, you know, I think we’re all just kind of this is me now, it’s quite...

 
Claudia thinks the worst is past for her and is looking forward to recovering and hopefully having a baby. Having a wife, baby daughter and new home has given Charlie “a lot of hope of seeing all the things that we can do together, really.” At a different stage of life, Jeremy and Graham would like to stay well enough to avoid going into a care home. 
 
We often heard it was a source of hope that medical research and improvements in treatment mean people with vasculitis can now live for longer and with a better quality of life. Diane said the number of clinical trials means that, if a drug doesn’t work – or stops working – for her, “there’ll hopefully be something else I can try.”
 

Pete is reassured that advances in treatment mean life for people with vasculitis “can only get better.”

Pete is reassured that advances in treatment mean life for people with vasculitis “can only get better.”

Age at interview: 67
Sex: Male
Age at diagnosis: 59
AAV (GPA)
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But the one thing I think people should be aware of is that there’s a lot of research ongoing into vasculitis, that we don’t know about. There’s a lot of real, clever people doing their best to try and, as they have done over the last, you know, ten years, you know, rituximab has been something that, it’s only came to the forefront in about the last ten years in vasculitis.

And you know going back even further, the mortality rate in vasculitis going back 25/30 years ago was pretty poor, and I can remember a consultant saying to me he now enjoys his job tremendously because going back then there was a lot of, there was a lot of sadness and grief. Whereas now because of the advancement in medication caused, you know, due primarily to all these hard-working consultants and research assistants, there’s now a better outlook for vasculitis patients.

It’s a condition that you live with. And that’s it. It’s no worse than some of the other conditions that are prevalent just now. So, there is a, you know, that’s the message that, it can only get better.

 
Isabella’s vasculitis is well controlled, and her life is “an awful lot better than I anticipated that it would be.” Where vasculitis was more difficult to control, or had caused more damage, people had a variety of fears. 
 

It’s possible Charlie will lose his voice permanently as a result of vasculitis. In case this happens, he is recording his voice so his daughter will always know how it sounds.

It’s possible Charlie will lose his voice permanently as a result of vasculitis. In case this happens, he is recording his voice so his daughter will always know how it sounds.

Age at interview: 28
Sex: Male
Age at diagnosis: 27
AAV (GPA)
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But it is incredibly challenging. I would say for those people that have completely lost their voice and got to the point where you cannot make any sound, there really aren’t many options out there. And even now, when we’re thinking about the future, for me, it’s very uncertain about whether I will maintain this voice or completely lose it altogether permanently, for my, for the rest of my life because we’re still uncertain about whether I can actually have procedures on my throat, or whether they’re not, they’re not viable.

And if they’re not, we’ve had to think a lot about things like voice banking and the ability to save thousands of words and once kind of having to say those words, to be able to work with companies to be able to develop a system in which you could type and then it can come up with your original voice, to be able to say these words. And people, like, different people in the US, have been known to be able to use these devices and to be able to communicate in this way, but I think it’s still quite a new thing. But it would always have limits again on having to hand-type out what you want to say and then it, for it to come up.

Apart from that, I’ll be honest, we can’t think of that many other options that, that, that could be done, really, for me, at the point if I completely lose my voice. So, I think it’s quite a, yeah, at the moment we’re, there’s a lot of uncertainty around that and I think that is definitely quite difficult. So, we’ve even tried to do things like increasing doing videos with my daughter or increasing different recordings, or just, just maybe even, just things for our own family, of saving the voice. In, just in case, within a few years I lose it permanently and my daughter never knows the sound of my voice when, when she’s older.

 
Angharad wonders if she will have fertility problems. If she can’t return to work, Marie wonders what the rest of her life will be like. For Sharon and Melissa, every virus is a threat. 
 

Melissa gets repeat infections with vasculitis, including a ‘superbug’. She is afraid of becoming resistant to antibiotics as that would be “the end of the line.”

Melissa gets repeat infections with vasculitis, including a ‘superbug’. She is afraid of becoming resistant to antibiotics as that would be “the end of the line.”

Age at interview: 22
Sex: Female
Age at diagnosis: 18
Behçet’s syndrome
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Sort of two of the antibiotics that treat it were IV antibiotics but one was an oral antibiotic, admittedly quite an obscure one, so it comes in a sachet that you mix into water, and that sort of wherever I went from that point I would need to carry this list of antibiotics that would treat the infection I had, and carry this oral antibiotic as well to take straightaway as soon as I got an infection, but equally that I should avoid taking this antibiotic for as long as possible because I should go through as many antibiotics as I can first and then take it because, if I become resistant to this, then it’s kind of the end of the line.

And yeah, for someone who has sort of experienced health problems a lot before, I think I would’ve expected myself to deal a lot better with sort of that fear. But it was, it was a different kind of fear, it was not fear of, “Oh, I’m going to end up in hospital with an infection at an inconvenient time and not be able to do something,” it was a fear that was, “I’m scared I’m going to end up resistant to all of the antibiotics and that’s going to be the end”, which was something very palpable.

And I don’t think it’s something that I’ve fully come to terms with yet. It’s just over a year ago it happened. And, since then, I think I’ve always felt vulnerable in terms of my health, but I’ve, it’s never been sort of to the point that I have nightmares about it, and that sort of before I, when I wasn’t having a flare, when I didn’t have an infection, I sort of found a new normal? [Laughs]. Which is a phrase that’s being used a lot now in a very different way, that maybe, maybe this will become normal one day, but since then I’ve been quite afraid. It’s something I think about a lot.

 
Lynn and Angharad told us that they fear being in a situation where they can’t advocate for themselves. Angharad has a type of vasculitis called Takayasu Arteritis, where it can be difficult to feel a pulse. She wears a medical alert on her wrist as it’s “a massive fear” that people might wrongly think she is dead. Lynn fears being very sick in hospital because, “when I see people that don’t understand vasculitis, I am an important part of the thing that keeps me safe.”

Systemic vasculitis and thoughts on dying

Of the people who talked about their thoughts on dying, some found reassurance in their faith. 
 

Nicola chooses to “live in the day” with vasculitis and count her blessings. She is comforted knowing that, when she dies, she will meet her baby Theo again.

Nicola chooses to “live in the day” with vasculitis and count her blessings. She is comforted knowing that, when she dies, she will meet her baby Theo again.

Age at interview: 46
Sex: Female
Age at diagnosis: 44
AAV (MPA)
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I think I touched on it with my husband when I came out the hospital, I do remember saying to him, “I could die now early, I might not have a full life.”

And I think that’s still around for me, I think I still, whether it’s accurate or not, and I don’t suppose anybody could give you a definite anyway, could they? Well, nobody can. They couldn’t give you a definite that you’re going to live for like, nobody can say, you know, even if you were well, like I couldn’t give a friend who’s got nothing a definite that she’s going to live for life so, I kind of just choose to live like that, it’s sort of around the - would this take a toll on other organs? Would this mean that when I am a certain age, I might need a transplant? Would that work? [sighs] Would I get poorly again? I don’t like thinking about that, but I choose just to think about now and I choose to live now because I’ve only got today and that’s it. I mean, I’m only, as much as anyone’s ever got is today. So, if it’s a good day today, that’s where I live in the day, and I very much live like that anyway. And I’m really good at perspective-taking over what’s important, what’s not important, and I live completely a life of abundance of gratitude and really acknowledge my blessings because I’ve had difficult times? So.

I think I can park things quite quickly and see through foggy bits to get to clarity of, “This is okay.” And, and yeah, I mean, if that should come then it will come, I just, it’s then that always leads back to my children, that’s the bit that, that’s the biggest worry, isn’t it? It’s always about your children. Although my mum felt like that when she was dying, and I was 45. And she didn’t want to leave me because I was 45, [laughs] I mean she was still; you know I was still her child, her baby, and that was the bit. She wasn’t afraid of dying because she wanted to meet my dad again, and they both always talked about being with Theo, so that gives everybody, it’s almost like he gives the comfort of dying to everybody, but yeah, she didn’t want to leave us. It’s, I think that’s just in us all as in, as parents. Mm.

Salma leaves her future with vasculitis “to God, to Allah.”

Salma leaves her future with vasculitis “to God, to Allah.”

Age at interview: 51
Sex: Female
Age at diagnosis: 33
AAV (GPA)
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You’ve mentioned a few times about occasions that were really scary. How do you deal with that in terms of looking towards the future, how, is that something that you think about?

To be quite honest I sort of leave that to God, to Allah because I have very strong faith, I certainly have a lot of faith in my religion, and I just think to myself, “Well, Allah wanted me to have this disease, to be ill, whatever, and, so, you know, if he wants to take it, make me better he can do, but if he doesn’t then, you know, I’ll just muddle on the way I am doing for, until, you know, things either get worse or I die.”

 
Not everyone wanted to know or think about how long their life might be. Those who told us they had considered this said that it would in any case remain uncertain. Mo at one point didn’t think she would reach 60. She laughed when saying that her consultant told her she could live into her 80s or 90s and “it probably won’t be your vasculitis, but hopefully what’ll kill you will be something else.” 
 
Sharon has discussed funerals with a friend, written down the details and “popped it away” so it’s there when the time comes. We also heard that some people have thought about the end of their life as a way of being in control of how it happens. 
 

It was important to Wendy to talk to her children about the end of her life and make her wishes known.

It was important to Wendy to talk to her children about the end of her life and make her wishes known.

Age at interview: 56
Sex: Female
Age at diagnosis: 53
AAV (GPA)
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And that was a real focus for counselling, was about taking control of ending my life so that my life ends in a good way, not in a way where I’m consumed with anxiety about people I’m leaving and all the rest of it. So yeah, that’s another thing, you know? [Laughs]. So much you have to switch and deal with. But I do feel, I’ve talked about that with friends, and I’ve talked about it with my children because I think, you know, it’s important they know I’ve thought about it and it’s not some, some horrible unknown horror that’s hanging around, ready to jump on us. You know, to me, it’s much more important to be, you know, talk about it.

Where did you access the stuff about the living will?

Compassion in Dying. Yeah, via Twitter. I think it was Celia Kitzinger or someone like that who originally picked up on my Tweet, and then, yeah, Compassion in Dying people are just, yeah, the form is dead easy. Well, dead easy, ha. Sorry [laughs]. The form is clear, the form is it’s, you know, straightforward. I guess it helps that I’ve, I’ve worked with people who are dying, I know how, I know how the kind of set-up works. But you know, it’s very clear for thinking through different possibilities. And then there’s a really nice bit at the end of the form where you can put about what you would like to happen when you are actually dying, you know, what are the important things to you that staff should know, you know I think this is brilliant, I really want to be able to say these things.

And then you nominate the people that they keep in touch with. You also, I also listed the people I talked about it with, so again, you know, if there’s any question over my capacity to make that document, they could go to it and say, “Oh, yeah, you know Wendy knew what she was talking about,” so, so that was, you know, again, to me it was an incredibly positive thing and I haven’t worried about it since, you know? I think out of the counselling, there were two things I really wanted to do apart from get more therapy, and one was to do body donation because I thought, you know, that would be a good thing to do, and the other was the living will. So, I’ve done both of them now, so I think “Oh yeah, I can get on with my crochet and my painting and growing mange tout and stuff like that.” [Laughs].

With her vasculitis in remission, Karen enjoys life, but has thought about what she could do if she becomes very ill in the future and wishes “to end it all.”

With her vasculitis in remission, Karen enjoys life, but has thought about what she could do if she becomes very ill in the future and wishes “to end it all.”

Age at interview: 58
Sex: Female
Age at diagnosis: 53
AAV (EGPA)
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So, there’s one thing you may wish to include or not to include. But I was having a conversation, as you often do with friends. Especially my age they’ve got parents that, you know, are on their last legs or whatever, and you end up having that conversation about, “Oh, well, you know, if I was that ill, I’d rather go to Switzerland.”

And I was having that conversation a few weeks ago with a friend of mine who’s got a very ill father and we were chatting, and I said, “Well I haven’t really got to worry about that because if I was very ill, and I wanted to end it all I’d just have to stop taking my drugs.” And they looked at me with complete and utter shock and I said, “Yes, I’ve thought about it.” But it would be something I could do. Now I wouldn’t do it lightly, obviously. But if very later on in life I did want to do that I could. And I see that as an advantage. But I don’t know that it’s something that automatically crosses a lot of people’s minds [laughs].

It’s interesting that you say that because it, it was one of the things that I was going to ask you about but I just, I got the feeling you didn’t really want to go there.

No, no, it’s something I had thought about. And especially, I mean I haven’t got any dependents, I’ve got no kids, so that’s something very often later on in life, I’m not saying that you ask your kids to do something, but it’s a conversation you might have with them. And, you know it is a quite a recurrent theme I think in families, you know, when you have parents that are very ill or very bad Alzheimer’s or something like that, how you manage that. And I think I’m quite fortunate that I can, it’s something I can manage myself. If I wish to.

 
Lynn said she’s not afraid of dying but has asked her consultant about her life expectancy to help her make decisions that will give her a good quality of life. She also intends to write an advance directive to make it clear that she would not wish to be kept alive on ventilation. 

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